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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Supposing D&D is gamist, what does that mean?
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<blockquote data-quote="Oofta" data-source="post: 8621938" data-attributes="member: 6801845"><p>I don't think there are any clear lines. Does fireball do more damage than a flamestrike because it's a higher level? Sure. Is that gamist or simulation? I would say yes to both. Much of the concept of spells and their relative power comes from the concept of ammunition and artillery since D&D grew out of a wargame. So the more powerful the munition, or spell, the more damaging the effect. Magic isn't real of course so you could say it's <em>never </em>simulationist. How can you simulate something that is completely fictional?</p><p></p><p>So take something like jump. We can long jump in the real world and D&D gives us rules to simulate that. On the other hand, there's no way to accurately model long jumps because the same rule has to cover every age category, body shape, every approach and landing surface. If you want to keep it simple how much the person is carrying doesn't really matter, neither does their training nor natural aptitude change much. So we have the current rules which are simple, easy to explain and close enough for the game. Do they actually do a good job? Well, without real world tests and extensive studies not just looking at how far the top .001% athletes that have spent their life training to do this one thing can jump under ideal conditions, we don't really know. It's close enough for the game. Besides, the DM can always give people an athletics check.</p><p></p><p>We could continue on down the list, but to me D&D evokes the feel of a fantasy novel and world. It's more simulationist than gamist compared to 4E (that's not an indictment of 4E) and I'm sure less simulationist than others. Most aspects of the game can be viewed through both lenses, and both would be correct.</p><p></p><p>Every TTRPG will always have aspects of both.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Oofta, post: 8621938, member: 6801845"] I don't think there are any clear lines. Does fireball do more damage than a flamestrike because it's a higher level? Sure. Is that gamist or simulation? I would say yes to both. Much of the concept of spells and their relative power comes from the concept of ammunition and artillery since D&D grew out of a wargame. So the more powerful the munition, or spell, the more damaging the effect. Magic isn't real of course so you could say it's [I]never [/I]simulationist. How can you simulate something that is completely fictional? So take something like jump. We can long jump in the real world and D&D gives us rules to simulate that. On the other hand, there's no way to accurately model long jumps because the same rule has to cover every age category, body shape, every approach and landing surface. If you want to keep it simple how much the person is carrying doesn't really matter, neither does their training nor natural aptitude change much. So we have the current rules which are simple, easy to explain and close enough for the game. Do they actually do a good job? Well, without real world tests and extensive studies not just looking at how far the top .001% athletes that have spent their life training to do this one thing can jump under ideal conditions, we don't really know. It's close enough for the game. Besides, the DM can always give people an athletics check. We could continue on down the list, but to me D&D evokes the feel of a fantasy novel and world. It's more simulationist than gamist compared to 4E (that's not an indictment of 4E) and I'm sure less simulationist than others. Most aspects of the game can be viewed through both lenses, and both would be correct. Every TTRPG will always have aspects of both. [/QUOTE]
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