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Supposing D&D is gamist, what does that mean?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8625381" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Your (2) is what Edwards calls "exploration". All RPGing generates a shared fiction. That's the nature of the game.</p><p></p><p>[USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER]'s point is that the <em>gameplay purpose</em> of weather in Torchbearer is not fiction for its own sake, but rather to help set additional parameters for challenge, and for skilled response to that challenge.</p><p></p><p>This is not "narrativism" in Edwards' sense. It is high concept simulationism - ie exploration, but of genre rather than of reality-modelling system. (What [USER=6790260]@EzekielRaiden[/USER] upthread labelled <em>emulation</em>.)</p><p></p><p>In Edwards' framework, a creative agenda isn't a vessel that does or doesn't land. It's a goal or purpose - the type of pleasure or aesthetic experience which we hope to achieve by way of RPGing. We know we've done it by doing it!</p><p></p><p>We succeed in simulationist play if we play a RPG and experience the fiction - the imagined world and events of play - for the sake of it. We call a RPG simulationist if it seems apt to help with that. Tunnels & Trolls, and Cthulhu Dark, and HeroWars/Quest, are all examples of RPGs that are not simulationist in this sense - they do not have mechanics, or procedures, or principles and advice, aimed at experiencing the imagined events for their own sake. Rolemaster, RuneQuest and (much of) Classic Traveller are simulationist in this sense - they emphasise experiencing the imagined world during play, and have mechanics and principles intended to reinforced this. And I have a number of D&D modules - Speaker in Dreams and Expedition to the Demonweb Pits are two I'll mention - that emphasise experiencing the imagined events in play, and have advice to GMs to help ensure that this remains the focus of play.</p><p></p><p>Torchbearer is, deliberately, full of processes and principles that take attention away from imagining the events of play, and instead focus the players' attention on how to overcome the obstacles the GM is confronting them with.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 8625381, member: 42582"] Your (2) is what Edwards calls "exploration". All RPGing generates a shared fiction. That's the nature of the game. [USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER]'s point is that the [i]gameplay purpose[/i] of weather in Torchbearer is not fiction for its own sake, but rather to help set additional parameters for challenge, and for skilled response to that challenge. This is not "narrativism" in Edwards' sense. It is high concept simulationism - ie exploration, but of genre rather than of reality-modelling system. (What [USER=6790260]@EzekielRaiden[/USER] upthread labelled [i]emulation[/i].) In Edwards' framework, a creative agenda isn't a vessel that does or doesn't land. It's a goal or purpose - the type of pleasure or aesthetic experience which we hope to achieve by way of RPGing. We know we've done it by doing it! We succeed in simulationist play if we play a RPG and experience the fiction - the imagined world and events of play - for the sake of it. We call a RPG simulationist if it seems apt to help with that. Tunnels & Trolls, and Cthulhu Dark, and HeroWars/Quest, are all examples of RPGs that are not simulationist in this sense - they do not have mechanics, or procedures, or principles and advice, aimed at experiencing the imagined events for their own sake. Rolemaster, RuneQuest and (much of) Classic Traveller are simulationist in this sense - they emphasise experiencing the imagined world during play, and have mechanics and principles intended to reinforced this. And I have a number of D&D modules - Speaker in Dreams and Expedition to the Demonweb Pits are two I'll mention - that emphasise experiencing the imagined events in play, and have advice to GMs to help ensure that this remains the focus of play. Torchbearer is, deliberately, full of processes and principles that take attention away from imagining the events of play, and instead focus the players' attention on how to overcome the obstacles the GM is confronting them with. [/QUOTE]
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