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Supposing D&D is gamist, what does that mean?
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 8626543" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>Sorry, [USER=86653]@overgeeked[/USER], I have zero interest in fisking. I cannot parse what you are trying to say. Can you please rephrase to clarify your point?</p><p></p><p>Just to add a bit to what I wrote above though.</p><p></p><p>The problem with these discussions is that narrativism is really unintuitive. It is almost an inversion of how games are understood to work. When you play a game, it's pretty natural that you are rooting for your "team". If I'm playing Chess, I'm generally not happy when you take my queen. That's, by and large, how games work. Even cooperative games generally work this way (outside of traitor mechanics) where the cooperative players are trying to work together towards some goal. </p><p></p><p>Imagine, for a second, a chess game. A serious chess game where the two players sit down, have that clock thing ready, and whatnot. Not some pickup game, but a serious game between two players of roughly equal skill. Imagine the reaction if one player then picks up his or her queen, hands it to the other player and says, "Wouldn't this make the game more interesting? This sounds like fun!"</p><p></p><p>I imagine that's a pretty quick way to get a punch in the mouth. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p><p></p><p>But, that's the goal in a Narrativist game. Not to overcome a situation. Not to cheer the team. But, much more like how fiction writing works - a grinder through which to see just how much punishment and joy you can cram into this character. "Kill your darlings" is very much good advice in a Nar game. The player isn't really advocating for his or her character like you do in a Gamist or Sim game. The player is advocating for drama - defined as play that generates strong feelings. It's not the thrill of rolling that crit, killing that baddie just before it kills your character. That's a fantastic thrill and lots and lots of games deliver that. But, instead its the thrill of creating play, collaboratively, that hits you in the feels. Might be happy, might be sad, might be something else. But, that's the point of play. </p><p></p><p>At least, that's how I understand the difference.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 8626543, member: 22779"] Sorry, [USER=86653]@overgeeked[/USER], I have zero interest in fisking. I cannot parse what you are trying to say. Can you please rephrase to clarify your point? Just to add a bit to what I wrote above though. The problem with these discussions is that narrativism is really unintuitive. It is almost an inversion of how games are understood to work. When you play a game, it's pretty natural that you are rooting for your "team". If I'm playing Chess, I'm generally not happy when you take my queen. That's, by and large, how games work. Even cooperative games generally work this way (outside of traitor mechanics) where the cooperative players are trying to work together towards some goal. Imagine, for a second, a chess game. A serious chess game where the two players sit down, have that clock thing ready, and whatnot. Not some pickup game, but a serious game between two players of roughly equal skill. Imagine the reaction if one player then picks up his or her queen, hands it to the other player and says, "Wouldn't this make the game more interesting? This sounds like fun!" I imagine that's a pretty quick way to get a punch in the mouth. :D But, that's the goal in a Narrativist game. Not to overcome a situation. Not to cheer the team. But, much more like how fiction writing works - a grinder through which to see just how much punishment and joy you can cram into this character. "Kill your darlings" is very much good advice in a Nar game. The player isn't really advocating for his or her character like you do in a Gamist or Sim game. The player is advocating for drama - defined as play that generates strong feelings. It's not the thrill of rolling that crit, killing that baddie just before it kills your character. That's a fantastic thrill and lots and lots of games deliver that. But, instead its the thrill of creating play, collaboratively, that hits you in the feels. Might be happy, might be sad, might be something else. But, that's the point of play. At least, that's how I understand the difference. [/QUOTE]
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Community
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Supposing D&D is gamist, what does that mean?
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