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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8627087" data-attributes="member: 6790260">So wait, just wait, just a second.Are we genuinely going to claim now that 4e wasn't any different from any other edition in terms of its explicit and implicit permissiveness, such that there were literally no reasons for DMs to think their power was, in any way, being reduced, eroded, or altered?Because you guys seem to be saying exactly that thing. The istory of the past fifteen years of gaming, including SEVERAL hundred-plus-page threads on this very forum in just the past year or so, would seem to explicitly prove you wrong. LOTS of people looked at 4e, even people who HATED it, and saw that it was explicitly and implicitly telling them that they were supposed to play along, supposed to be permissive and accommodating in a way no previous edition had been before. That's literally why people kept trumpeting the supposed &quot;DM Empowerment!&quot; of 5e--a phrase I am dead certain I have heard at least one of you use in the past.If 5e was about re-empowering DMs....how can you possibly argue that 4e wasn't an edition where there was unusual deviation from the norm on the specific subject of what DMs were obliged to do?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8627087, member: 6790260"] So wait, just wait, just a second. Are we genuinely going to claim now that 4e [I]wasn't[/I] any different from any other edition in terms of its explicit and implicit permissiveness, such that there were [I]literally no reasons[/I] for DMs to think their power was, in any way, being reduced, eroded, or altered? Because you guys [I]seem[/I] to be saying exactly that thing. The istory of the past [I]fifteen years[/I] of gaming, including SEVERAL hundred-plus-page threads on this very forum in just the past year or so, would seem to [I]explicitly[/I] prove you wrong. LOTS of people looked at 4e, even people who HATED it, and saw that it was explicitly and implicitly telling them that they were [I]supposed[/I] to play along, [I]supposed[/I] to be permissive and accommodating in a way no previous edition had been before. That's [I]literally why[/I] people kept trumpeting the supposed "DM Empowerment!" of 5e--a phrase I am [I]dead certain[/I] I have heard at least one of you use in the past. If 5e was about re-empowering DMs....how can you possibly argue that 4e [I]wasn't[/I] an edition where there was unusual deviation from the norm [I]on the specific subject of what DMs were obliged to do?[/I] [/QUOTE]

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