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Supposing D&D is gamist, what does that mean?
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<blockquote data-quote="Crimson Longinus" data-source="post: 8627804" data-attributes="member: 7025508"><p>Right. This is you doing it again. All this is just thrown together as one package. Having to recover the remains of one's mother is certainly 'a dramatic need' albeit I'd argue we need to establish more about the emotional significance of this for it to truly have dramatic impact. But the further material conditions surrounding that are no longer 'dramatic needs' Yes, the mother's remains must exist (or at least the character needs to believe so) and they need to be in some location that is not readily accessible. And of course the character needs to have some important reason for retrieving the remains. But none of this requires that the player invents the whole Fortress of the Iron Ring and it's place in the setting. They could, but doing so is not 'establishing a dramatic need.' And all this of course comes back to you quibbling about the player establishing a quest upon seeing 'here be dragons' on the map. That they use GM invented place/other setting elements as trappings for their dramatic need doesn't invalidate their contribution. They have established a dramatic need for their character, and also elevated a random flavour text on the map to something that now has significance to the story. (Yes story, we are always creating stories at the RPG table.)</p><p></p><p>As for 4e, you're massively overinterpreting what is actually there. I seriously doubt that it was ever intended for the players to establish significant setting elements via quests, merely to set goals regarding already existing elements. Or if they intended players to have significant setting authority, then they did piss poor job at expressing it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Crimson Longinus, post: 8627804, member: 7025508"] Right. This is you doing it again. All this is just thrown together as one package. Having to recover the remains of one's mother is certainly 'a dramatic need' albeit I'd argue we need to establish more about the emotional significance of this for it to truly have dramatic impact. But the further material conditions surrounding that are no longer 'dramatic needs' Yes, the mother's remains must exist (or at least the character needs to believe so) and they need to be in some location that is not readily accessible. And of course the character needs to have some important reason for retrieving the remains. But none of this requires that the player invents the whole Fortress of the Iron Ring and it's place in the setting. They could, but doing so is not 'establishing a dramatic need.' And all this of course comes back to you quibbling about the player establishing a quest upon seeing 'here be dragons' on the map. That they use GM invented place/other setting elements as trappings for their dramatic need doesn't invalidate their contribution. They have established a dramatic need for their character, and also elevated a random flavour text on the map to something that now has significance to the story. (Yes story, we are always creating stories at the RPG table.) As for 4e, you're massively overinterpreting what is actually there. I seriously doubt that it was ever intended for the players to establish significant setting elements via quests, merely to set goals regarding already existing elements. Or if they intended players to have significant setting authority, then they did piss poor job at expressing it. [/QUOTE]
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Community
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Supposing D&D is gamist, what does that mean?
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