NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 8627994" data-attributes="member: 22779">And... D&D is not, nor has it ever been a Nar game.  At best, 4e leans a bit into Nar, but, D&D has always been Gamist first.  What's your point?Is anyone here trying to claim that D&D is anything other than Gamist?  Maybe High Concept Sim, but, even that's a bit dodgy.  D&D is, at its core, a Gamist game.  As a ratio, I'd say it was GAMIST:simulationist.  Nar play is largely absent from D&D, and any attempt to add it in has been met with very vocal hostility.But, if "establishing dramatic needs of the character doesn't automatically necessitate extensive setting authority", then why are you concerned with placing the Iron Ring into the setting?  If the dramatic needs of the characters isn't tied to setting, then, as far as dramatic needs are concerned, setting is unimportant.Which is more or less the point that Nar play is trying to make.  That when you are playing, it's not necessary to follow the traditional route of the DM creates the campaign world, populates it with adventure locations, then doles out the plot hooks to see what the players want to do.  That's all that's being claimed here.  The only claim that is being made is that there are other options.  There are other ways of doing things.And, this is useful to players as well.  As someone who just left a group because the playstyles that most of the group were working with, while being perfectly suited to a strongly gamist game, is not something I find myself enjoying.  I'm finding that high concept sim is actually probably a better fit for me to be honest.  The players hand me broad hooks, and it's my job as the DM to bring that into the game in a coherent manner while at the same time presenting the campaign I have created (or, currently, am using).</blockquote>

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