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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8628061" data-attributes="member: 42582">Have you read the 4e text on player-authored quests? It's not just a "throwaway line". Here is a reposting of a quote of some of the relevant text.Hundreds of words is not a "throwaway line".And the system of player-authored quests is not a "GM giving XP for a character fulfilling a player declared goal". It is a player "establishing the fundamental story framework of an adventure" by "giv[ing] [their] DM ingredients".A player playing Keep on the Borderlands can declare a goal (eg I will eliminate the shrine of chaos!). But the content and scope of any such goal is limited by the material prepared by the GM. The player can't declare, as their goal, I will recover the remains of my mother from the shrine of chaos because the shrine has no remains in it, of a PC's mother or otherwise. The player can't establish the fundamental story framework of an adventure.I don't think the significance of recovering one's parent's remains from the Fortress of the Iron Ring, and recovering them from the Temple of Pelor, have the same dramatic significance. They signal different things - different story frameworks, and different thematic contexts for that story, and likely different resolutions.I've quoted the text. It gives the example of the mother's remains being in the Fortress of the Iron Ring; and it refers to "contributing ingredients".And it refers to player creating quests, which are defined as fundamental story frameworks. It's obviously not talking about players looking over the GM's map, seeing "Here be dragons", and saying "Wouldn't it be cool to loot a dragon's lair!" That doesn't involve the players contributing any ingredients, nor establishing any fundamental story frameworks.</blockquote>

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