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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Supposing D&D is gamist, what does that mean?
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8628100" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>[USER=7030755]@Malmuria[/USER] , I just posted this on Discord not long ago (and it was agreed with generally by the players including [USER=16814]@Ovinomancer[/USER] ) regarding the PBtA game <em>The Between</em>.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The High Concept Simulation aspect of The Between features no Illusionism whatsoever. But, in my experience, Illusionism is quite often (due to system "not quite getting there") a hefty rider for HCS play (sufficient to control the trajectory of play much of the time.</p><p></p><p>As far as D&D editions go, I've played everything but OD&D. This is where I come down on them:</p><p></p><p><strong>Moldvay Basic</strong> - Gamism</p><p></p><p><strong>RC </strong>- Gamism OR High Concept Simulationism</p><p></p><p><strong>1e</strong> - Gamism OR High Concept Simulationism + (very poor man's or retrograde) Process Simulationism</p><p></p><p><strong>2e </strong>- High Concept Simulationism</p><p></p><p><strong>3.x</strong> - Gamism possible at very low levels (E6) OR (very poor man's or retrograde) Process Simulationism + High Concept Simulationism</p><p></p><p><strong>4e</strong> - Gamism OR Gamism/Narrativism hybrid (actual integration of the two)</p><p></p><p><strong>5e</strong> - High Concept Simulationism</p><p></p><p></p><p>* Of note. Gamism in Moldvay Basic and RC and 1e are kindred (no surprise), with (IMO) the Gamism in MB and RC being superior to 1e. The Gamism in Moldvay Basic/RC/1e is somewhat different than what low level 3.x offers is <em>quite </em>different than what 1-30 4e offers.</p><p></p><p>2e doesn't offer Gamism because it stripped out most of the important tech that offered Gamism prior, is just a pile of kitchen-sink stuff, and embraces so deeply the Dragonlance/White Wolf Storytelling zeitgeist (which is anathema to Gamism and competitive integrity).</p><p></p><p>5e doesn't offer Gamism because it strips out so much of important tech that offered Gamism prior, has a horrific Encounter Budget paradigm and Adventuring Day balance paradigm, noncombat action resolution is deeply deeply GM fiat governed by a lot of storyteller impetus or content curation/spotlighting impetus (or arbitrarily so even if it isn't done uniformly), and the PCs are just so overwhelmingly powerful at the beginning of the game with all the resources they could possibly want due to Cantrips and Rituals.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 8628100, member: 6696971"] [USER=7030755]@Malmuria[/USER] , I just posted this on Discord not long ago (and it was agreed with generally by the players including [USER=16814]@Ovinomancer[/USER] ) regarding the PBtA game [I]The Between[/I]. The High Concept Simulation aspect of The Between features no Illusionism whatsoever. But, in my experience, Illusionism is quite often (due to system "not quite getting there") a hefty rider for HCS play (sufficient to control the trajectory of play much of the time. As far as D&D editions go, I've played everything but OD&D. This is where I come down on them: [B]Moldvay Basic[/B] - Gamism [B]RC [/B]- Gamism OR High Concept Simulationism [B]1e[/B] - Gamism OR High Concept Simulationism + (very poor man's or retrograde) Process Simulationism [B]2e [/B]- High Concept Simulationism [B]3.x[/B] - Gamism possible at very low levels (E6) OR (very poor man's or retrograde) Process Simulationism + High Concept Simulationism [B]4e[/B] - Gamism OR Gamism/Narrativism hybrid (actual integration of the two) [B]5e[/B] - High Concept Simulationism * Of note. Gamism in Moldvay Basic and RC and 1e are kindred (no surprise), with (IMO) the Gamism in MB and RC being superior to 1e. The Gamism in Moldvay Basic/RC/1e is somewhat different than what low level 3.x offers is [I]quite [/I]different than what 1-30 4e offers. 2e doesn't offer Gamism because it stripped out most of the important tech that offered Gamism prior, is just a pile of kitchen-sink stuff, and embraces so deeply the Dragonlance/White Wolf Storytelling zeitgeist (which is anathema to Gamism and competitive integrity). 5e doesn't offer Gamism because it strips out so much of important tech that offered Gamism prior, has a horrific Encounter Budget paradigm and Adventuring Day balance paradigm, noncombat action resolution is deeply deeply GM fiat governed by a lot of storyteller impetus or content curation/spotlighting impetus (or arbitrarily so even if it isn't done uniformly), and the PCs are just so overwhelmingly powerful at the beginning of the game with all the resources they could possibly want due to Cantrips and Rituals. [/QUOTE]
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Supposing D&D is gamist, what does that mean?
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