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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Supposing D&D is gamist, what does that mean?
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<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 8628154" data-attributes="member: 71699"><p>That's really well put. To those of us who have played all or nearly all versions of D&D, 5e can feel like the version with the <em>least</em> emphasis on wargamerish challenge. One can't rule out the possibility that it is easily-overcome challenge, that is desired, rather than say steep-challenge: and that would still be challenge. That is, one perhaps shouldn't conflate focus on and satisfaction from challenge with focus on and satisfaction from <em>steep</em> challenge.</p><p></p><p>Aside from that, I think the ability checks system can pivot either way. The game text itself lets in a fiction-first approach. Calling for a check is placed in the hands of DM, and what puts the DM in position to call for a check is the doings of the imagined inhabitants of the game world. What follows is assigned to the DM to narrate, but system has its say. What 5e lacks (other than as an option in the DMG) is a method for dividing success into total success and success with complications. That may be something 6e incorporates as the d20 system is otherwise falling behind standard RPG tech in the respect. There's a good chance (not guaranteed) that 6e will see ability checks further improve.</p><p></p><p>[EDIT I notice I was drawn to write "wargamerish challenge" above. I wonder if that is the source of my discomfort with "gamist"? That what everyone describes is only a traditional wargamerish form of mechanical challenge. The space not covered by simulationist and narrativist, contains far more than that. One could say - oh well, keep "gamist", and come up with further subjective agendas, while feeling disappointed that narrativist was built on a far more robust feeling investigation of story than gamist has been on gameplay.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 8628154, member: 71699"] That's really well put. To those of us who have played all or nearly all versions of D&D, 5e can feel like the version with the [I]least[/I] emphasis on wargamerish challenge. One can't rule out the possibility that it is easily-overcome challenge, that is desired, rather than say steep-challenge: and that would still be challenge. That is, one perhaps shouldn't conflate focus on and satisfaction from challenge with focus on and satisfaction from [I]steep[/I] challenge. Aside from that, I think the ability checks system can pivot either way. The game text itself lets in a fiction-first approach. Calling for a check is placed in the hands of DM, and what puts the DM in position to call for a check is the doings of the imagined inhabitants of the game world. What follows is assigned to the DM to narrate, but system has its say. What 5e lacks (other than as an option in the DMG) is a method for dividing success into total success and success with complications. That may be something 6e incorporates as the d20 system is otherwise falling behind standard RPG tech in the respect. There's a good chance (not guaranteed) that 6e will see ability checks further improve. [EDIT I notice I was drawn to write "wargamerish challenge" above. I wonder if that is the source of my discomfort with "gamist"? That what everyone describes is only a traditional wargamerish form of mechanical challenge. The space not covered by simulationist and narrativist, contains far more than that. One could say - oh well, keep "gamist", and come up with further subjective agendas, while feeling disappointed that narrativist was built on a far more robust feeling investigation of story than gamist has been on gameplay.) [/QUOTE]
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