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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Crimson Longinus" data-source="post: 8628278" data-attributes="member: 7025508">Whilst I disagree that 5e combat system generates "almost no fiction," I agree that as sims go, it is not great. But it probably also wouldn't be a choice of people who wish "realistic challenge" in the first place. I was not talking just about D&D. Having more robustly simulationistic system doesn't need to conflict with providing an interesting challenge (though of course this depends on the sort of challenge you desire) and it can even support it. Basically the desire in such a simulation would be for the system to create simulation of the challenge the action being simulated would have in reality (or in the source fiction.) Like how the purpose of some wargames is to realistically to simulate the sort of command challenges the general leading a real army would face. In such a situation sim and gamist agendas have intertwined to basically become one. Nope what? What part of what I said you actually disagree with? You do not think thank that different creative agendas that GNS places under one banner can conflict with each others? You don't think that process sim and genre emulation desires can conflict? Because like the discussion about superheroes in some recent threads show, they absolutely can.</blockquote>