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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 8628484" data-attributes="member: 22779">Not as I understand it.&nbsp; If the game ties race to class, in such a way that choosing Race X for Class Y only provides a mechanical advantage, then that is very much not a narrative game.&nbsp; You choose a Dex Race to play a Dex Class.&nbsp; Which has pretty much nothing to do with anything outside of the mechanics of the game.&nbsp; It's about as Gamist as it can be. It's not really Sim play because it's so incoherent (why does this race get this bonus but this other race that is physically almost identical not get the same bonus?) .So, in that sense, I do disagree with [USER=6790260]@EzekielRaiden[/USER] in that I don't find race/class to be sim - well, potentially High Concept Sim maybe - particularly.&nbsp; The Race/Class combos are gamist buttons that you press, not particularly for any sort of simulation of anything - to me all the things that [USER=6790260]@EzekielRaiden[/USER] talks about are simply post hoc justifications bolted on to spackle over the fact that these are purely gamist concepts.Or, to put it another way, if you look at that table in the 5e DMG where they talk about non-standard races as classes - that table tells you everything you need to know to play that race in D&amp;D, yet tells you absolutely nothing about those races.&nbsp; I mean, using that table, I could play an Aarokocra character without actually knowing what an Aarokocra is.&nbsp; I know it's something that flies - since it has a fly speed, and it has claws.&nbsp; That's it.&nbsp; Since it's Dex or Wis race, I know that I'm not supposed to make an Aarocockra wizard.Again, I have no idea what this race is, (well, I do, but, work with me here) but, I can absolutely play it with no problem using nothing but that table.&nbsp; I can then completely invent an &quot;Aarokocra&quot; to justify those bonuses after the fact - it's a bat/flying dinosaur humanoid right?- and dive straight into play.I remember talking to a fellow DM years ago, a few years after 3e released and he told me that he didn't have a Monster Manual when he started play and this was before online SRD's, so, he used zombies because the zombie stats were in the PHB.&nbsp; Everything he used in the game was just a variation of zombie stats.&nbsp; And the game worked fine.That's how little importance simulationist play is in 3e.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 8628484, member: 22779"] Not as I understand it. If the game ties race to class, in such a way that choosing Race X for Class Y only provides a mechanical advantage, then that is very much not a narrative game. You choose a Dex Race to play a Dex Class. Which has pretty much nothing to do with anything outside of the mechanics of the game. It's about as Gamist as it can be. It's not really Sim play because it's so incoherent (why does this race get this bonus but this other race that is physically almost identical not get the same bonus?) . So, in that sense, I do disagree with [USER=6790260]@EzekielRaiden[/USER] in that I don't find race/class to be sim - well, potentially High Concept Sim maybe - particularly. The Race/Class combos are gamist buttons that you press, not particularly for any sort of simulation of anything - to me all the things that [USER=6790260]@EzekielRaiden[/USER] talks about are simply post hoc justifications bolted on to spackle over the fact that these are purely gamist concepts. Or, to put it another way, if you look at that table in the 5e DMG where they talk about non-standard races as classes - that table tells you everything you need to know to play that race in D&D, yet tells you absolutely nothing about those races. I mean, using that table, I could play an Aarokocra character without actually knowing what an Aarokocra is. I know it's something that flies - since it has a fly speed, and it has claws. That's it. Since it's Dex or Wis race, I know that I'm not supposed to make an Aarocockra wizard. Again, I have no idea what this race is, (well, I do, but, work with me here) but, I can absolutely play it with no problem using nothing but that table. I can then completely invent an "Aarokocra" to justify those bonuses after the fact - it's a bat/flying dinosaur humanoid right?- and dive straight into play. I remember talking to a fellow DM years ago, a few years after 3e released and he told me that he didn't have a Monster Manual when he started play and this was before online SRD's, so, he used zombies because the zombie stats were in the PHB. Everything he used in the game was just a variation of zombie stats. And the game worked fine. That's how little importance simulationist play is in 3e. [/QUOTE]

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