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Message: <blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 8628685" data-attributes="member: 71699">For me, a really important doubt still exists over the conflation of achievement with problem-solving. [USER=6790260]@EzekielRaiden[/USER] shows quite well how the two can be connected. I think though, that one can have problem-solving (aka overcoming obstacles) without achievement. And you can have achievement connected with each other impulse - not just praise and pride, but overt score. Such as XP for resolving a bond in Dungeon World.I'm tentatively mulling the following poles (activities, behaviours, impulses... not sure the best word here) - a five-fold model if you like<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Solve a problem</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Tell a story</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Make believe</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Construct</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Collect</li> </ul>I set aside achievement, as I believe it can be present in all impulses. That's likely my main dissatisfaction with definitions of gamist so far. Everyone was able quite easily (and based on the outcomes of arguments decades ago) to set aside competition as essential to gamist. I'm advocating for a similar separating out of achievement from an interest or urge toward problem solving or overcoming of obstacles.</blockquote>