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<blockquote data-quote="Thomas Shey" data-source="post: 8629294" data-attributes="member: 7026617">Except, of course, people do keep defending GNS as the better model; as long as that's the case I reserve the right to say why I think it isn't.&nbsp; Its not as critical in theory in this thread as its parent thread (because GNS and GDS Gamism are probably close enough), but as soon as people want to bring in the other legs of either model, its going to keep coming up.Like I said, I suspect if it was kept to a positive discussion of what the Gamism of D&amp;D is (which both GDS and GNS proponents are in general agreement about) it wouldn't be a problem.&nbsp; The problem comes up when you try to talk about secondary functions in D&amp;D which seem ad-hoc Dramatist to a GDS proponent, and if I'm now understanding correctly the GNS categories, don't seem to fit into it anywhere as best I can tell (because if I'm not misunderstanding Story-seeking that is not Story Now is not consider virtuous in the model, well, anywhere (either that or its again being shoved into Sim because apparently the bucket at the bottom that catches anything that doesn't obviously land anywhere else)).&nbsp; So as soon as you get into that, there are problems.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Thomas Shey, post: 8629294, member: 7026617"] Except, of course, people do keep defending GNS as the better model; as long as that's the case I reserve the right to say why I think it isn't. Its not as critical in theory in this thread as its parent thread (because GNS and GDS Gamism are probably close enough), but as soon as people want to bring in the other legs of either model, its going to keep coming up. Like I said, I suspect if it was kept to a positive discussion of what the Gamism of D&D is (which both GDS and GNS proponents are in general agreement about) it wouldn't be a problem. The problem comes up when you try to talk about secondary functions in D&D which seem ad-hoc Dramatist to a GDS proponent, and if I'm now understanding correctly the GNS categories, don't seem to fit into it anywhere as best I can tell (because if I'm not misunderstanding Story-seeking that is not Story Now is not consider virtuous in the model, well, anywhere (either that or its again being shoved into Sim because apparently the bucket at the bottom that catches anything that doesn't obviously land anywhere else)). So as soon as you get into that, there are problems. [/QUOTE]

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