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Message: <blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 8630924" data-attributes="member: 71699">In that case you would be generating a new take. In my take there is no tuning to score-and-achievement, and the interest in play is the immersion in British rail of a certain epoch. I'm envisioning a highly faithful to its reference experience. There's nothing wrong with your fresh take, but it is non-identical to my take.Again, in my take, we resist the impulse to score completely. I call my take gamist because it is focused on solve a problem: find the sequence that takes us through the network to B within the time. Were I criticising my own take I would argue I was substituting time or tempo as a resource. Tempo should be one of the fundamentals of gamism... hence the implied question at the end of my take on this one.Just to restate that I call attention to a doubt about the GNS take on gamism. It's that take that is problematic here (if anything is, which I intentionally leave in doubt).Yes! We needed premise or character commitments, and would then be looking toward player authorship. The example was silent on such matters and so might have been impossible to parse from a narrativist perspective. Hence the right response might be perforce tangential. I don't actually mind grasping it as [USER=22779]@Hussar[/USER] did. I just wanted another way of looking at it.Story now requires that moves are tested against the fictional positioning, which maintains an ongoing consistency (for example, once we know there is on Mondays a 5:25 timetabled to Marlowe, we can generally rely on that fiction on an ongoing basis). Gamism now requires a similar test against principles and ongoing consistency. It's not Calvinball, and needn't be all or nothing.Sim now resists the urge to believe causality the only path to fidelity to reference, and relies on the participant's deep knowledge and faithful commitment to their references to drive the play. They may spend more time studying sources on and from the period, than game rules. They resist the urge to preestablish anything, because they possess expansive knowledge and want to be able to explore in any direction. They want to be surprised by uncovering through play truths about their reference (e.g. an "Aha" moment when they realise exactly why some custom or other detail made sense to folk at the time.)...</blockquote>

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