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Supposing D&D is gamist, what does that mean?
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8631117" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>What distinguishes it from Sim? I mean, the goal of play seems to me to be reproducing the sorts of situations, characters, and utterances which take place in the Vance's Dying Earth stories (I'd note that he did also produce a couple of other series with VERY similar tone, Madouc and the other books in that series being the prime examples). The game is certainly NOT about character development in any substantive sense. That is, it is not expected that Iocouno, Cudgel, or the other major characters particularly change or grow. In fact one of the things that seems to be part of the tone is a sort of fatalism about human nature and personality. I would say that 'playing properly' in the Dying Earth RPG consists of, exactly, producing this sort of obtuse character. The various witticisms and such basically reinforce their LACK of seriousness, depth, and ability to reflect or grow! Consequences may include disruptions of their plans and devices, but I don't think any character's core character traits would ever be challenged by activity within the game. In the literature Rialto the Magnificent does get cleverer and 'wiser' in the sense of gaining a better understanding of and access to magic. He's fundamentally the same person at the end as he was at the start however, from what I can recall. Perhaps he became a bit more jaded and cynical? </p><p></p><p>So, IMHO, I would call it a type of Simulationist game, as the main activity is exploration of the setting, tone, and genre in general, with a perhaps somewhat gamist competition to see who can come up with the funniest and most droll lines. It is a fairly unique RPG, though I've always thought it was in many respects not too far removed from Paranoia in overall agenda (obviously the specific things that are supposed to happen are different, along with the genre, but dying in silly ways and making silly quips about ridiculous situations are actually not that far removed).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8631117, member: 82106"] What distinguishes it from Sim? I mean, the goal of play seems to me to be reproducing the sorts of situations, characters, and utterances which take place in the Vance's Dying Earth stories (I'd note that he did also produce a couple of other series with VERY similar tone, Madouc and the other books in that series being the prime examples). The game is certainly NOT about character development in any substantive sense. That is, it is not expected that Iocouno, Cudgel, or the other major characters particularly change or grow. In fact one of the things that seems to be part of the tone is a sort of fatalism about human nature and personality. I would say that 'playing properly' in the Dying Earth RPG consists of, exactly, producing this sort of obtuse character. The various witticisms and such basically reinforce their LACK of seriousness, depth, and ability to reflect or grow! Consequences may include disruptions of their plans and devices, but I don't think any character's core character traits would ever be challenged by activity within the game. In the literature Rialto the Magnificent does get cleverer and 'wiser' in the sense of gaining a better understanding of and access to magic. He's fundamentally the same person at the end as he was at the start however, from what I can recall. Perhaps he became a bit more jaded and cynical? So, IMHO, I would call it a type of Simulationist game, as the main activity is exploration of the setting, tone, and genre in general, with a perhaps somewhat gamist competition to see who can come up with the funniest and most droll lines. It is a fairly unique RPG, though I've always thought it was in many respects not too far removed from Paranoia in overall agenda (obviously the specific things that are supposed to happen are different, along with the genre, but dying in silly ways and making silly quips about ridiculous situations are actually not that far removed). [/QUOTE]
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