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Supposing D&D is gamist, what does that mean?
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8631551" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Yeah, well, for example:</p><p></p><p>The (IIRC 4th level) PCs are brought into the presence of the 11th level wizard who is their enemy (but he doesn't know it yet, though he's had them disarmed, he's not stupid). The PCs suddenly attack! They're only 30' away from the wizard, and a couple of them rush forward and engage him, using the grappling rules. By the end of the surprise round the wizard is dead and a major pillar of the meta-plot has been destroyed... This is the kind of issue you get with 2e! I mean, OK, I could have fudged. The game gets in the way of itself. For one thing it posits a rule-based approach to NPCs which has no consideration for their story function, even though it claims to be a game focused on story. In 4e, for example, this wizard would simply be a solo or an elite at least, and if he was much higher level, then combat would be effectively precluded as a viable option. It just isn't fit to purpose. In fact, when we played it as '1.5e' it worked OK, you could use the existing 1e exploration rules to fill in missing stuff (I don't even think we realized 2e was missing that stuff for a long time) and the slightly improved 2e classes, monsters, and combat rules. It makes a mildly better dungeon crawler type of game that way. As Jeff Grub attempted to tell us it was supposed to be played? Nope, doesn't work well at all, unless you follow the 'fudge stuff' advice, which is BIZARRE as it basically tells you the very rulebook you are holding in your hands doesn't work! Its almost an absurdist kind of thing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8631551, member: 82106"] Yeah, well, for example: The (IIRC 4th level) PCs are brought into the presence of the 11th level wizard who is their enemy (but he doesn't know it yet, though he's had them disarmed, he's not stupid). The PCs suddenly attack! They're only 30' away from the wizard, and a couple of them rush forward and engage him, using the grappling rules. By the end of the surprise round the wizard is dead and a major pillar of the meta-plot has been destroyed... This is the kind of issue you get with 2e! I mean, OK, I could have fudged. The game gets in the way of itself. For one thing it posits a rule-based approach to NPCs which has no consideration for their story function, even though it claims to be a game focused on story. In 4e, for example, this wizard would simply be a solo or an elite at least, and if he was much higher level, then combat would be effectively precluded as a viable option. It just isn't fit to purpose. In fact, when we played it as '1.5e' it worked OK, you could use the existing 1e exploration rules to fill in missing stuff (I don't even think we realized 2e was missing that stuff for a long time) and the slightly improved 2e classes, monsters, and combat rules. It makes a mildly better dungeon crawler type of game that way. As Jeff Grub attempted to tell us it was supposed to be played? Nope, doesn't work well at all, unless you follow the 'fudge stuff' advice, which is BIZARRE as it basically tells you the very rulebook you are holding in your hands doesn't work! Its almost an absurdist kind of thing. [/QUOTE]
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Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Supposing D&D is gamist, what does that mean?
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