NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8631956" data-attributes="member: 16814">This... is a very weird example.  I see where [USER=7025508]@Crimson Longinus[/USER] is coming from, because you've managed to completely obfuscate your point behind your example.  As I follow this, you're trying to say that genre isn't an input into SN, and that's mostly but not entirely correct.  Setting is a constraint on play -- that's it's purpose -- even in Story Now.  The point you're making -- is the setting the final constraint -- is valid, but the example confuses this because, if I'm playing AW in a Story Now mode, the constraint of setting is strong enough to, except in very specific circumstances, hedge out shoggoths from play.  Honestly, without some kind of thumb on the scale, I'm not sure how shoggoths get in if everyone is playing with integrity.So, then, what does setting (of which genre is a part) do in Story Now games?  They set the stage.  They provide a common understanding and backdrop to play, so that when we're in the moment of play and things are happening, there's enough setting to provide a common framework for everyone to situate within.  And no more.  The and no more is the real key to how setting operates in Story Now -- it's not the star of the sow and should not be dictating any outcomes to play, just like a prop doesn't dictate the outcome of an improv sketch.  It's influential, sure, and can be an input, or it can be subverted into something else as needed.  Setting is still important to Story Now, but that doesn't elevate the play to Simulationism.  For setting to elevate to Simulationism, setting has to be the star of the show.To sum up GNS wrongly, but perhaps usefully, I offer this:In Simulationism, the setting is the star of the show -- the rules of the setting or the setting itself are the point of play.In Gamism, the play is the star of the show -- how well you play and how well you can play are the point of play.In Narrativism, the character is the star of the show -- who this character is and what choices they will make under adversity that reveal this are the point of play."But, Ovi," you say, "I have setting and game and characters at my table!  When I play, characters, and setting, and the game are important, too!  Doesn't that mean that I have all of GNS in my game?"  No.  Because, at any given moment, one of those has to be prioritized.  Either an outcome is focused on and revolves around what the setting is saying, or it revolves around who the character is and the choices they make under adversity that reveal the character, or it's about how well you're playing the game.  Which of these is deciding what's happening?  A quick test is to see who has the say and what they can say.  In simulationist games, either the GM or the system has the say and they are expected to reinforce the setting -- the system through a process that represents a clear cause/effect situation in the setting or the GM for things like genre adherence or better story outcomes.  In Gamist play, the system(edit) has the say and always will and is limited to only the inputs allowed (no fudging or other considerations).  This is important because this is how you play better, leveraging the system. Setting is not really considered at all, here.  In Narrativist play, the system says who has the say -- it's system first, then, usually, the GM under tight constraints.  The constraints are based on what the dramatic need of the characters are (the GM needs to frame everything in those terms), what the system said (success/failure/mixed), and what the player said during action resolution.  These combine to center the PC in play, because the constraints on say are all about the character. Setting only filters in as a constraint after this.That latter is a bit hard to grasp for people who have extensive experiences with Sim/Gamism.  The reason for this is that it the constraints on play are pretty different from Sim/Gamism.  If you get good thinking and resolving play in Sim terms, the shift to a completely different set of constraints that ditch the ones you're familiar with (what do you mean I'm considering setting last?).ETA -- [USER=7029930]@AnotherGuy[/USER] pointed out an error below, I have corrected it for better first time reading.</blockquote>

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