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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8632353" data-attributes="member: 16814">I elaborated further, but no.  The principles and agenda of play in PbtA games do NOT tell the GM how to decide if moves succeed or fail, they tell them to use the mechanics.  If the irreducible procedure point is that the GM decides success -- ie, Bob Says -- and they are free to do this any way they want, then you cannot claim to be achieving the goals of Story Now play. To state a different way, let's agree that the principles and agendas absolutely work in the post resolution narration space without any mechanics.  That is to say, that using these will always generate good PbtA narration of outcomes.  Cool, now we still need to determine success or failure.  There is nothing at all in the principles or agendas that help to do this, because PbtA clearly tells us this is where we are required to use mechanics.  So, absent mechanics, we have no guidance at all, even relying on the principles and agendas.  Again, I remind you we're only answering the success/failure question -- not the particulars which are covered by principles and agendas.  This means that, in any given moment, Bob is on Bob's own to determine what happens.  And Bob can feel that there've been a lot of failures lately and a success is due, or vice versa, or not even be aware of why they chosen a success over a failure in this moment.  Or they may, and be entirely within the principles and agendas, be directing play by choosing successes and failures.  I know that if I had that freedom, I could make a PbtA game dance to my tune very easily.So, no, this core failure state (and those layers are a failure state model) collapse into generic play that will not, on it's own, produce Story Now play.  It's a good failure state to catch a situation where everything is going off the rails and you need to understand how to fail gracefully in the momenet, but it, in no way, implies that staying in bottom layer is a valid way to play.  It's just the final saving failure state.  Trying to play a PbtA game at that layer only is playing inside a failure state.</blockquote>

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