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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8633375" data-attributes="member: 6696971">Got it!Great post and I agree.&nbsp; My only contributions would be to add the following:* It is of absolute necessity that if you're building a game engine that functionally toggles in the way you're depicting that it be designed such that INTENT IS ABUNDANTLY TRANSPARENT AND PROCEDURES ARE ABUNDANTLY CLEAR AND THE WHOLE THING FREAKING WORKS.&nbsp; The reason why Torchbearer works despite having extremely different subsystems/zoom is because intent and procedures are transparent and clear and the whole thing freaking works.* In my opinion (and I've expressed it many times), 4e accomplishes successful integration of Gamist and Story Now priorities because of transparency, intraparty balance, PC : Team Monster/Obstacle balance, fantastic integration of the various moving technical and thematic parts, coherent incentive structures, and hyper-functionality (related to all of the prior stuff).&nbsp; This is why the combat engine ISN'T just a Gamist subsystem.&nbsp; There is so much depth and dynamism and reliability of the combat system that a GM can trivially (assuming sufficient skill of course) frame techincally demanding and decision-space-and-outcome-dynamic combat with a huge diversity of micro-goals and macro-goals that may have nothing to do with or only something to do with &quot;ablating Team Monster HP to 0 to achieve Win Con.&quot;And while Skill Challenges are nowhere near as technically engaging/rewarding as the conflict resolution systems of (say) Dogs in the Vineyard or MHRP, they're still technically engaging and enormously supportive of Story Now priorities.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 8633375, member: 6696971"] Got it! Great post and I agree. My only contributions would be to add the following: * It is of absolute necessity that if you're building a game engine that functionally toggles in the way you're depicting that it be designed such that INTENT IS ABUNDANTLY TRANSPARENT AND PROCEDURES ARE ABUNDANTLY CLEAR AND THE WHOLE THING FREAKING WORKS. The reason why Torchbearer works despite having extremely different subsystems/zoom is because intent and procedures are transparent and clear and the whole thing freaking works. * In my opinion (and I've expressed it many times), 4e accomplishes successful integration of Gamist and Story Now priorities because of transparency, intraparty balance, PC : Team Monster/Obstacle balance, fantastic integration of the various moving technical and thematic parts, coherent incentive structures, and hyper-functionality (related to all of the prior stuff). This is why the combat engine ISN'T just a Gamist subsystem. There is so much depth and dynamism and reliability of the combat system that a GM can trivially (assuming sufficient skill of course) frame techincally demanding and decision-space-and-outcome-dynamic combat with a huge diversity of micro-goals and macro-goals that may have nothing to do with or only something to do with "ablating Team Monster HP to 0 to achieve Win Con." And while Skill Challenges are nowhere near as technically engaging/rewarding as the conflict resolution systems of (say) Dogs in the Vineyard or MHRP, they're still technically engaging and enormously supportive of Story Now priorities. [/QUOTE]

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