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Message: <blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 8634983" data-attributes="member: 71699">Got it. Fair enough then. You accept I hope that I am not the author of that comment.Okay, well, what can I say? I'm describing best practice product design process*, actually in the context of game design. There's no mashing together. The reaction to 4e was disappointing. I think as we go along more and more folk will see it as the watershed design that it was.*Hopefully sufficiently emphasising the power of iterative design-cycles.In case of doubt, I don't think you are delusional on that score! I think you are delusional for other reasons. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />I understand your take here, and that is a separate discussion, right? If I had to pick, purely on gamist (per my definition of that term, and not RE's which I find incomplete), then yes, 4e all the way. It's pretty uncompromisingly gamist (which does not rule out it being other things, at the same time.) I hopefully haven't said anywhere upthread that 5e succeeds in being uncompromisingly gamist!?There is another way to look at that, however, which is to ask not how gamist is 5e, but how deftly does it employ gamist concepts? To my observation, 5e consciously lowered difficulty and increased character leverage over game-world (which is aligned with skill expression.) So that it is relatively easy in 5e to feel one a sense of positive performance. One could caveat that this is - after 1st level - but maybe the 1st level speed bump is crucial in sustaining respect in the achievement?</blockquote>

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