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Supposing D&D is gamist, what does that mean?
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8636165" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Well, what I note is that 5e sacrificed the easy path there, which 4e had mapped out! clearly there was a consideration that was higher priority than either 'designability' nor 'design space'. I mean, I think 5e does reasonably well there, but nothing touches things like AEDU, which literally meant that any character could simply acquire a power from any other class trivially. I mean, that was pretty cool. Beyond that, lots of designability was baked in with role and source to focus the designer of a class in on exactly the kinds of things it should achieve, for example. I'm a bit skeptical that 5e's framework could withstand the sheer volume of additions that 4e got in its run. WotC went CRAZY with that game, and it didn't break one bit! There are what FIVE ways to be a Vampire in 4e? (ritual, feat tree, class, race, MC, Hybrid) though I think the ritual really doesn't count since it seems to be meant only for NPC color, or possibly you could use it as a story device to explain a PC gaining one of the other types of 'vampirism'. None of these invalidates or breaks the others (and even stacking them doesn't really cause any issues). I really do not think 5e would be that robust! Still, clearly 5e is balanced enough in overall design that its use of 3e level design/modularity works pretty well.</p><p></p><p>Also, I think 5e improves on 4e in terms of some of its use of the design space. 5e uses feats better, and while the structure of classes is not perfect, it does lend itself to a nice "make a choice at level 3 and never think about it much again." which is NOT really true of 4e (but then the flip side is 4e characters are inherently super tweakable to achieve almost any player desire imaginable without much trouble.). </p><p></p><p>So, I'd give 4e slightly better marks on these points, but not overwhelmingly better by any means. Mostly I think it points out that those considerations are secondary in 5e to other ones, like creating a weird hodge podge of class feature-based stuff is actually a design goal of 5e, but anathema to 4e's putting what you call 'design space' first.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8636165, member: 82106"] Well, what I note is that 5e sacrificed the easy path there, which 4e had mapped out! clearly there was a consideration that was higher priority than either 'designability' nor 'design space'. I mean, I think 5e does reasonably well there, but nothing touches things like AEDU, which literally meant that any character could simply acquire a power from any other class trivially. I mean, that was pretty cool. Beyond that, lots of designability was baked in with role and source to focus the designer of a class in on exactly the kinds of things it should achieve, for example. I'm a bit skeptical that 5e's framework could withstand the sheer volume of additions that 4e got in its run. WotC went CRAZY with that game, and it didn't break one bit! There are what FIVE ways to be a Vampire in 4e? (ritual, feat tree, class, race, MC, Hybrid) though I think the ritual really doesn't count since it seems to be meant only for NPC color, or possibly you could use it as a story device to explain a PC gaining one of the other types of 'vampirism'. None of these invalidates or breaks the others (and even stacking them doesn't really cause any issues). I really do not think 5e would be that robust! Still, clearly 5e is balanced enough in overall design that its use of 3e level design/modularity works pretty well. Also, I think 5e improves on 4e in terms of some of its use of the design space. 5e uses feats better, and while the structure of classes is not perfect, it does lend itself to a nice "make a choice at level 3 and never think about it much again." which is NOT really true of 4e (but then the flip side is 4e characters are inherently super tweakable to achieve almost any player desire imaginable without much trouble.). So, I'd give 4e slightly better marks on these points, but not overwhelmingly better by any means. Mostly I think it points out that those considerations are secondary in 5e to other ones, like creating a weird hodge podge of class feature-based stuff is actually a design goal of 5e, but anathema to 4e's putting what you call 'design space' first. [/QUOTE]
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Supposing D&D is gamist, what does that mean?
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