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Supposing D&D is gamist, what does that mean?
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8636259" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Well, putting my boots on has nothing to do with character motives/needs (except in the most trivial and I would think uninteresting way). So, to the extent that a game focuses on what sounds like 'daily life' it isn't doing Story Now, its probably doing some sort of simulationist play that focuses on 'simulating the daily life of a character'. I don't think there's a 'proportion' that has to be met here, I think its just a matter of to what degree is a particular agenda being catered to in a game. It could obviously vary from session to session. In terms of game design, its strictly something like; to the extent that a game puts the focus on 'putting on boots', it is catering to a simulationist agenda, and that will presumably mean it is detracting focus from elements that might cater to other agendas.</p><p></p><p>But why did they do that? Was it because it would remove some obstacle so they could get some treasure? Was it because one of the characters strongly believes in the value of cooperation and staked his reputation/life/belief against proving it on this harpy? Or something else?</p><p></p><p>I think it is likely that some stronger version of premise might be present in Story Now, though not always. I mean, Dungeon World presents a premise of a fantastical world and heroic unique player characters (your character is THE Wizard, not a wizard). Every DW game will be organized with this premise in mind (it can be subverted of course, but then the game may not work well).</p><p></p><p>Well, I think it is quite fair to say that genre and premise often interact in some way. Remember, Edwards doesn't really talk about genre as a PRIMARY thing. It supports premise, and so you won't likely create a system or play a game where the desired premise doesn't mesh with the genre. Like you wouldn't want to play Knights of the Round Table in Cimmeria, right? I mean, maybe juxtaposing those would actually be INTERESTING, but then the focus would be the juxtaposition, it isn't really helping you do an SN kind of play, particularly. At least not SN that is heavily character focused, it might work for SN that is more setting focused, where the PCs motives are external to themselves.</p><p></p><p>But the one critical thing is where the impetus comes from. Is the game fundamentally shaped by the questions which arise out of dramatic needs of the PCs or not? </p><p></p><p></p><p>Right, but the reason SN took on a big focus in 'Narrative Play' is that it really insures that the focus goes to where NP wants it to go. Setting, per se, isn't going to make SN or NP generally impossible. It is just sort of like the boots, if exploring a GM provided setting is a big focus, then discovery, and the associated genre sim will assume a greater part of the agenda. In order for a strong setting to take 2nd place to character dramatic needs requires deft handling. I think there's a strong desire to point out that some games get SN almost by default, and some require a little work, and some take a HUGE amount of work.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8636259, member: 82106"] Well, putting my boots on has nothing to do with character motives/needs (except in the most trivial and I would think uninteresting way). So, to the extent that a game focuses on what sounds like 'daily life' it isn't doing Story Now, its probably doing some sort of simulationist play that focuses on 'simulating the daily life of a character'. I don't think there's a 'proportion' that has to be met here, I think its just a matter of to what degree is a particular agenda being catered to in a game. It could obviously vary from session to session. In terms of game design, its strictly something like; to the extent that a game puts the focus on 'putting on boots', it is catering to a simulationist agenda, and that will presumably mean it is detracting focus from elements that might cater to other agendas. But why did they do that? Was it because it would remove some obstacle so they could get some treasure? Was it because one of the characters strongly believes in the value of cooperation and staked his reputation/life/belief against proving it on this harpy? Or something else? I think it is likely that some stronger version of premise might be present in Story Now, though not always. I mean, Dungeon World presents a premise of a fantastical world and heroic unique player characters (your character is THE Wizard, not a wizard). Every DW game will be organized with this premise in mind (it can be subverted of course, but then the game may not work well). Well, I think it is quite fair to say that genre and premise often interact in some way. Remember, Edwards doesn't really talk about genre as a PRIMARY thing. It supports premise, and so you won't likely create a system or play a game where the desired premise doesn't mesh with the genre. Like you wouldn't want to play Knights of the Round Table in Cimmeria, right? I mean, maybe juxtaposing those would actually be INTERESTING, but then the focus would be the juxtaposition, it isn't really helping you do an SN kind of play, particularly. At least not SN that is heavily character focused, it might work for SN that is more setting focused, where the PCs motives are external to themselves. But the one critical thing is where the impetus comes from. Is the game fundamentally shaped by the questions which arise out of dramatic needs of the PCs or not? [I][/I] Right, but the reason SN took on a big focus in 'Narrative Play' is that it really insures that the focus goes to where NP wants it to go. Setting, per se, isn't going to make SN or NP generally impossible. It is just sort of like the boots, if exploring a GM provided setting is a big focus, then discovery, and the associated genre sim will assume a greater part of the agenda. In order for a strong setting to take 2nd place to character dramatic needs requires deft handling. I think there's a strong desire to point out that some games get SN almost by default, and some require a little work, and some take a HUGE amount of work. [/QUOTE]
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