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Message: <blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 8636916" data-attributes="member: 71699">Ah, right, a different point and one I agree with. An important worth in the constitutive and regulatory rules of games is their capacity to satisfy our gamist concerns and motivations (among other things.)EDIT Consider [USER=6790260]@EzekielRaiden[/USER] Score - Achievement binary. If we have an interest in that purpose, then it is in our interest to put rules in force for ourselves that constitute or regulate it in a way we enjoy. Our gamist GM therefore, will have little interest in suspending those rules. Perhaps they will refine them, as many do in 5e who want a stiffer challenge. We might value our GM for thus curating the experience. There is normally no slippery slope from here to Calvinball, due to our shared interests and commitments (tacit exogenous rules, or principles).Thus you can rightly describe that - as I outline - the GM will make the necessary commitments.We're talking a little at cross-purposes. You expressed the concern thatOne example might be changes you proposed to TB2 journeys. You felt it led to a better game and players - seeing justice in your reasoning - might be very happy to depend on your wisdom in that regard. Nothing that is happening there is damaging to gamism.Extremely important work. They say that even if a group can suspend every rule, why would they? What leads us to follow game rules at all? The answer is not that the rulebook tells us to. Here I will just encourage anyone who hasn't yet read Suits (and related) to reflect on what is served by our lusory expectations and attitude as we step into the magic circle (yes, along with other stuff as [USER=16586]@Campbell[/USER] reminds). Suits didn't have it quite right, but I think he points in exactly the right direction.EDIT Exogenous and tacit are not at odds with endogenous and encoded: they operate together. It's right to suppose that encoding can help us, but agreement to an encoded rule is not located in that rule. Nor do we agree to a rule just because it is encoded (for example we might go along with it without examination, just because we trust our group, or we wish to enjoy play with them).</blockquote>

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