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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Thomas Shey" data-source="post: 8639522" data-attributes="member: 7026617">I think, again, this makes some assumptions about perceived usage in the field that I don't think always follows.  And I think it turns on an important issue of GM process in those cases that players are usually relatively aware of if they've been playing with a given GM for any length of time.The question is "Is the GM making a rule 0 style decision to address output or input?"What I mean here is that, even if they're doing so for the reason you suggest (and I remind you again that I'm not happy with calling this "sim" when it includes a number of to many people unrelated things, but that doesn't directly impact your statement other than to remind you where I'm coming from), it makes a great degree of difference whether it is to control output or to frame input and process.  In other words, is it changing the process because it looks too easy/too hard in general, or for that player.  In the case of the latter I agree with your assessment; in the former, not so much.  And I think transparency on the part of a GM as to why he's doing that (and possible input from the players in it) makes a big difference.Put simply, from a gamist point of view, if the GM is going to change a set of processes or simply some numbers because he had not realized how poorly they represented the situation as he sees it, as long as I know its the case I can still engage with it on a gamist level in most cases because I can still know whether the thing I'm attempting to do is the most sensible choice given my character's abilities and aims.  Its Campbell's "black box" that destroys this, and the black box is not an automatic element that goes with the ability to engage "rule 0".  It may, in a few cases be a necessity to engage with process in a way that seems appropriate on both a game and story level (unless one knows at least a bit about the quality of guards one is sneaking past, one should generally commit to doing so or not without knowing exactly what their perceptual ratings will be--but even here there should be a range of possible cases unless in-fiction one is going into the situation very blind).  But those are, for the most part, specialty cases outside of some extremely information-tight old school approaches where players having any information of a usable level is considered anathema (as you can tell, I'm not a fan).</blockquote>

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