Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Supposing D&D is gamist, what does that mean?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8640140" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Right, it is just possible, even not so unlikely, in a classic D&D game (or 3e, which is stupidly complex) that this can come up fairly often, which means we're stepping out of our gamist agenda a lot. That was what I found when I ran RAW 1e (I mean aside from the amusing incident at the very start). So actually getting in any really serious 'game' was quite hard, actually! Now, I expect people like Gygax ran into much less of a problem there, as the entire rules were simply 'whatever I do', so there you get instead the 'playing the GM' issue. For all these reasons I basically agree with you, there isn't anything like real gamism in a system along the lines of D&D. Torchbearer OTOH, you can actually PLAY that in much closer to the true sense of playing (though I'd fault it for having poorly organized rules).</p><p></p><p>Agreed, you can do various things 'about' it, but each incident itself kind of negates that specific instance of gamist play, because whatever the solution is, it in practice is about putting things back to 'how we expect them to be' vs 'playing by the rules to see who is the best player.'</p><p></p><p>Yeah, I just conclude that, while gamist play is possible, the part where the rules are tested against the players should NOT involve some kind of simulationist kind of fiction references. Again, I look at something like TB2, or some ways that 4e is played, and there it is much easier. You don't need to end up with a consistent set of ideas about what will happen "in the game world." TB2 just says "here's the turn structure, and as the GM ticks through turns here's what WILL happen." The fiction is there, it may be the REASON you tick off turns/face obstacles, but you're not actually testing against the fiction, but against the turn/resource system instead.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8640140, member: 82106"] Right, it is just possible, even not so unlikely, in a classic D&D game (or 3e, which is stupidly complex) that this can come up fairly often, which means we're stepping out of our gamist agenda a lot. That was what I found when I ran RAW 1e (I mean aside from the amusing incident at the very start). So actually getting in any really serious 'game' was quite hard, actually! Now, I expect people like Gygax ran into much less of a problem there, as the entire rules were simply 'whatever I do', so there you get instead the 'playing the GM' issue. For all these reasons I basically agree with you, there isn't anything like real gamism in a system along the lines of D&D. Torchbearer OTOH, you can actually PLAY that in much closer to the true sense of playing (though I'd fault it for having poorly organized rules). Agreed, you can do various things 'about' it, but each incident itself kind of negates that specific instance of gamist play, because whatever the solution is, it in practice is about putting things back to 'how we expect them to be' vs 'playing by the rules to see who is the best player.' Yeah, I just conclude that, while gamist play is possible, the part where the rules are tested against the players should NOT involve some kind of simulationist kind of fiction references. Again, I look at something like TB2, or some ways that 4e is played, and there it is much easier. You don't need to end up with a consistent set of ideas about what will happen "in the game world." TB2 just says "here's the turn structure, and as the GM ticks through turns here's what WILL happen." The fiction is there, it may be the REASON you tick off turns/face obstacles, but you're not actually testing against the fiction, but against the turn/resource system instead. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Supposing D&D is gamist, what does that mean?
Top