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Supposing D&D is gamist, what does that mean?
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<blockquote data-quote="Thomas Shey" data-source="post: 8640180" data-attributes="member: 7026617"><p>Only if you think on-the-fly rules work is stepping out of it. Honestly, IME its a thing more gamist players are more tolerant of, specificially because they care about coherence of rules rather than just moving on and whatever. As I said, the only time I normally do something ad-hoc and then ignore it is when its a situation sufficiently odd its not worth the headspace for pretty much anyone involved to remember it. Otherwise it becomes immediate fodder for the next houserules update.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, I've expressed my opinion that while very clearly gamist in intent, early D&D was honestly pretty crap at the job. There was a reason I bailed off into other games as soon as I saw things that were significantly different, and it wasn't just because I was more simulationist back then (though that was absolutely a factor).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I actually don't think that's true with more modern versions of D&D (though I have some suspicions with 5e). 3e and 4e absolutely could be played gamist (though as you say it could sometimes be kind of painful with 3e).</p><p></p><p>Again, I think you're holding up a bit of a platonic ideal here as being a necessity.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Naw. The latter only makes sense as long as both the GM and the players involved have the same understanding of how things work. To me what I've done looks more like discovering a game component is missing and accounting for it. Its not about (at least in this area) making things "how we expect them to be" (at least outside of a game-design "what is reasonable" sort of way) as much as "making this functional".</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think that's the problem here, honestly. After all, these spell rules weren't representing something that pre-existed that needed to be represented, even in the fiction; they were created for the game in the first place and Gygax or whoever got to decide how they worked. Charitably, he decided they'd work something like real world explosives (which there's no particular reason they should, given everything); less charitably he was just trying to make them less useful in the typical dungeon settings he was running (notably, other than starting fires occasionally, neither Fireball nor Lightning Bolt were nearly the pain in the ass to handle outdoors).</p><p></p><p>That said, its not like I've never claimed that tradeoffs for GDS Drama or Sim can't make things harder on the Game end; you in the end have to decide in that triangular diagram where you're going to land and accept the price for doing so.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Thomas Shey, post: 8640180, member: 7026617"] Only if you think on-the-fly rules work is stepping out of it. Honestly, IME its a thing more gamist players are more tolerant of, specificially because they care about coherence of rules rather than just moving on and whatever. As I said, the only time I normally do something ad-hoc and then ignore it is when its a situation sufficiently odd its not worth the headspace for pretty much anyone involved to remember it. Otherwise it becomes immediate fodder for the next houserules update. Well, I've expressed my opinion that while very clearly gamist in intent, early D&D was honestly pretty crap at the job. There was a reason I bailed off into other games as soon as I saw things that were significantly different, and it wasn't just because I was more simulationist back then (though that was absolutely a factor). I actually don't think that's true with more modern versions of D&D (though I have some suspicions with 5e). 3e and 4e absolutely could be played gamist (though as you say it could sometimes be kind of painful with 3e). Again, I think you're holding up a bit of a platonic ideal here as being a necessity. Naw. The latter only makes sense as long as both the GM and the players involved have the same understanding of how things work. To me what I've done looks more like discovering a game component is missing and accounting for it. Its not about (at least in this area) making things "how we expect them to be" (at least outside of a game-design "what is reasonable" sort of way) as much as "making this functional". I don't think that's the problem here, honestly. After all, these spell rules weren't representing something that pre-existed that needed to be represented, even in the fiction; they were created for the game in the first place and Gygax or whoever got to decide how they worked. Charitably, he decided they'd work something like real world explosives (which there's no particular reason they should, given everything); less charitably he was just trying to make them less useful in the typical dungeon settings he was running (notably, other than starting fires occasionally, neither Fireball nor Lightning Bolt were nearly the pain in the ass to handle outdoors). That said, its not like I've never claimed that tradeoffs for GDS Drama or Sim can't make things harder on the Game end; you in the end have to decide in that triangular diagram where you're going to land and accept the price for doing so. [/QUOTE]
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Supposing D&D is gamist, what does that mean?
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