Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Supposing D&D is gamist, what does that mean?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8640636" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Sorry, maybe I'm not being clear, it was a fairly 'raw' thought. I am not saying anything about hidden information making gamist agendas impossible. In fact I was merely commenting on what I observe in terms of expectations/assumptions underlying many posts I've seen (not just in this thread). I don't think there's much connection between hidden information and gamism, really. There is a perception however that D&D's style of challenge architecture can ONLY exist when the GM controls all backstory/setting, and the players only get information from the character perspective and nothing else. I'm not the one putting this forward, every thread is replete with instances of statements along these lines. It is practically 'D&D Gospel'.</p><p></p><p>As I say, I don't see how hidden information impedes gamism, except as it may enable some sort of unprincipled play on the GM's part. That is something we might think about, but I don't believe it really has much bearing on agendas. In terms of Narrativist play, if there is hidden setting/backstory, then how do the players fully advocate for the PCs and realize their goal of exploring the game's premise? I think there CAN be a place for certain types of secrets where they are revealed in a 'moment of truth', but I don't think in that kind of play they arise from deep hidden backstory, they are things that are framed in by a GM pretty much in the moment. At most a GM might plan such a possibility (IE in Dungeon World the GM might imagine "what if the ranger is actually in league with the orcs?" and decide to make up combat stats for the character in case such a reveal happens and there's a fight, which he deems fairly likely). This differs a lot from the classic hidden backstory thing where the GM has designated the NPC to be a traitor from day one, and she's going to reveal this plot twist at a certain preordained point in play. In the DW game, this would be, probably, a hard move triggered by some sort of combination of dice and player declarations. It is only allowed if it addresses some character concern, like a bond, etc.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8640636, member: 82106"] Sorry, maybe I'm not being clear, it was a fairly 'raw' thought. I am not saying anything about hidden information making gamist agendas impossible. In fact I was merely commenting on what I observe in terms of expectations/assumptions underlying many posts I've seen (not just in this thread). I don't think there's much connection between hidden information and gamism, really. There is a perception however that D&D's style of challenge architecture can ONLY exist when the GM controls all backstory/setting, and the players only get information from the character perspective and nothing else. I'm not the one putting this forward, every thread is replete with instances of statements along these lines. It is practically 'D&D Gospel'. As I say, I don't see how hidden information impedes gamism, except as it may enable some sort of unprincipled play on the GM's part. That is something we might think about, but I don't believe it really has much bearing on agendas. In terms of Narrativist play, if there is hidden setting/backstory, then how do the players fully advocate for the PCs and realize their goal of exploring the game's premise? I think there CAN be a place for certain types of secrets where they are revealed in a 'moment of truth', but I don't think in that kind of play they arise from deep hidden backstory, they are things that are framed in by a GM pretty much in the moment. At most a GM might plan such a possibility (IE in Dungeon World the GM might imagine "what if the ranger is actually in league with the orcs?" and decide to make up combat stats for the character in case such a reveal happens and there's a fight, which he deems fairly likely). This differs a lot from the classic hidden backstory thing where the GM has designated the NPC to be a traitor from day one, and she's going to reveal this plot twist at a certain preordained point in play. In the DW game, this would be, probably, a hard move triggered by some sort of combination of dice and player declarations. It is only allowed if it addresses some character concern, like a bond, etc. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Supposing D&D is gamist, what does that mean?
Top