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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8642161" data-attributes="member: 6696971">Here is what I expect (bare minimum) from a functional, integrated (these two are the words that matter...having a "pile of stuff" does not yield an actual functional, integrated play experience...its actually quite the opposite - until someone has done the integrating and stress-tested it) hexcrawl experience.  In no particular order:* Gear/inventory loadout and encumbrance management matters.* PC build suites don't obviate play from the word go.  In D&D-land, this means spellcasters so I'm looking at you At-Will Cantrips and Rituals.* Exploration Turns or Travel Leg management is (a) rigorously and consequentially codified and integrated with both the game engine at large and PC build features and (b) is easy to use.* The play loop for managing hex travel is clearly written, easily to GM principally and with discipline, and contains an interesting and vital play space (charting a course is a consequential menu of choices where you're integrating risk/reward + playing off of the resources you can martial to best manage the hexes' dangers + winnowing your post-resolution consequence-space).* There is a functional clock that serves as a continuous pressure-cooker, strategic/tactical input for player decision-space (in B/X this is Wandering Monters...Torchbearer this is The Grind) as it looms heavily over play.* There is an optional camp phase for active decision-points about recovery (Torchbearer model) or mandatory rest/respite after x Turns (this is 4 in B/X) and that doesn't pose an integration puzzle to solve with other game tech (eg the Short Rest of 5e and its implications upon play).* Functional NPC Reaction adjustment and Morale rules.* Functional reward cycles/incentive structure paradigm; eg xp is best earned via attaining Gold and avoiding resource-draining combats and hazards.  Or xp bonus is earned for each Hex explored or for uncovering or resolving particular Discoveries within a hex.* There aren't other system confounds baked in (eg PC power level/Adventuring Day throughput and nova capability contingent upon a particular resource attrition schedule because of the deep disparity in resource scheduling and attendant power) that you have to either (a) bake into GM decision-making when creating the hexmap and tables or (b) its just a nonstarter so you have to start with rejiggering PC build stuff or the default rest dynamics of the game.[HR][/HR]I don't remotely see how 5e is a good system for hexcrawls.  The DMG has some very basic, not-well (or at all) integrated stuff, is missing/ leaves out an enormous swathe of Hexcrawl loop game tech stuff that is needed to create actual compelling Hexcrawl play and there is little to no actual instruction on the how or the why, and has tons of confounds baked in (mega powerful At Wills Spells is a nonstarter!).Like that loop depicted on that Avernus thing (I'm assuming an AP or something)?  [USER=71699]@clearstream[/USER] , with respect, that is just awful.  There is no actual game there.  My Perilous Journeys in Dungeon World and Stonetop contain vastly more intensive journey-based play.Before setting out:* Players are making consequential decisions to Requisition assets or not.* Players are making consequential loadout decisions.* Players are charting a macro course."In the Field":* Players are making consequential leg-based:* Role decisions (who is doing what).* Course charted decisions (from a menu of choices I provide they choose how to "attack" and hedge risk with regard to the topography/potential threats and hazards/potential discoveries...or they give me an "off-menu" option and we nail that down and go with that).* Role intra-move resolution decisions (martialing resources to amplify and choosing options based on their move results).* Extra-Role move decisions (like Forage or Find Shelter) and resolving those.* Dealing with the fallout of their moves (finding Discoveries and exploring them or dealing with Dangers/Hazard scenes as they emerge as a result of move resolution).* Dealing with Make Camp related decisions and the if danger/discovery manifests in the night.EDIT - [USER=1282]@darkbard[/USER] , [USER=20459]@Nephis[/USER] .  Contrast the below 5e DIA with our Journey loop for your DW and ST games.  [USER=6785785]@hawkeyefan[/USER] , [USER=16814]@Ovinomancer[/USER] , contrast with our Blades Transport play loop or ST Journey loop.  [USER=82106]@AbdulAlhazred[/USER] , [USER=70468]@kenada[/USER] , [USER=71235]@niklinna[/USER] , contrast the below with either our Journeys or our Wilderness Adventures in Torchbearer.  "Not much there" doesn't quite do it justice, yeah?[HR][/HR]That is a hell of a lot of "play" and it isn't even close to the primary point of play (whereby, in Hexcrawling, its the biggest overall piece of the pie of play or at least equal to Delving)!By contrast, that Avernus "procedure" is a giant nothingburger of mostly non-play!  Maybe we're missing a whole swath of chunky play in the loop...but that looks like the most tacked-on, barely qualifying as vestigial Journey play loop that I could conceive of.  Its bordering on GM Prompt territory.</blockquote>

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