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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8653263" data-attributes="member: 82106">I think what I'm getting out of this is we have different ideas of what 'SFRPG' consists of. Not only that, but I think I'm making a more definite point than you are. So, for example, d6 Space has SOME advancement (you can actually make your character stupid powerful in, say, combat if you do certain optimal things, for example). It doesn't have something like D&D advancement that you can point at and say "I've achieved X degree of advancement", and in fact if you choose more thematic and less optimal options in d6 Space your character could have a LOT of advancement, and not actually perform any differently than it did on day one. This is where D&D's model excels.And, as I said, in terms of games that have been around since earlier D&D days, I don't know anything about 'Fragged Empire', but it is a game that was certainly written in the last 10 years. Maybe it has D&D-esque levels, I wouldn't know, but as I said before, it is unlikely to become overwhelmingly popular these days. So its hard to say it is evidence against my thesis...I DO think something PRETTY CLOSE to levels actually IS required here. That's part of the thesis.Anyway, I'm happy to discuss it elsewhere if you want.</blockquote>