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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Thomas Shey" data-source="post: 8653456" data-attributes="member: 7026617">I can see an argument about post-apoc games but, well, you brought them up first.  Cyberpunk should absolutely fit in that category unless your concept requires space travel to be involved.I don't think it requires a lockstep advancement system for people to find experience systems to be a motivator.  In fact, I'll flat out say nothing I've seen over the decades supports this, or any number of somewhat-degenerate habits in other game systems that didn't use levels would have occurred.  Bluntly, many of them showed a greater degree of difference in characters who'd accumulated a modest amount of experience than any OD&D fighter or thief did.  I'd be willing to put money that the difference between a second and third level OD&D fighter was nearly invisible in play, something you couldn't say about most any other game with an experience system unless someone proactively went out of their way to produce that, and such people were the least likely to care.Space Quest was, in essence, D&D in space.  It had levels, classes, hit points, and accumulating high-tech gear was a big deal.  Almost no one knows about it.  If that sort of dynamic was all that was needed, it wouldn't be.  Heck, even other fantasy games of a similar structure for the most part got nearly nowhere in many cases.  I stand by my opinion that D&D's early-adopter benefit was going to be difficult for anyone to unseat, and being in another genre, even if you mimicked its reward structure, was not going to help.In any case, if you want a statute of limitations of how recent the examples can be, you're going to have to be more specific about that.  Cyberpunk 2013 came out in 1988.  If you set it much farther back than that, you're progressively narrowing the number of games that exist at all, so it anything, D&D's gravitational advantage increases.Then I think its on you to explain how such structures have not been particularly common outside of the immediate D&D sphere in most anything successful.  I mean, you can make an argument for Palladium maybe, but until the D20 glut, other than that there was--what?  If that was a good model, why did none of the other games that used it get much of anywhere?If you think its worthwhile, start a thread, but my experience is that it runs into cause-and-effect problems.  There's a thread about SF games going now which has discussed this very topic and doesn't seem to have progressed anywhere.</blockquote>

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