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Supposing D&D is gamist, what does that mean?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8653799" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I have no idea why the dirt matters. I'm simply following Vincent Baker's example.</p><p></p><p>Most likely, in Traveller played fairly canonically, a patron has retained the PCs to get the dirt for them. But maybe one of the PCs has an enemy and wants the dirt to blackmail them. </p><p></p><p>As for the existence of a safe: that can be established via Streetwise, and indeed that is exactly an instance of what the Streetwise skill is for. From Book 1, p 15:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">The referee should set the throw required to obtain any item specified by the players (for example, the name of an official willing to issue licenses without hassle = 5+, the location of high quality guns at a low price = 9+). DMs based on streetwise should be allowed at +1 per level. No expertise DM = −5.</p><p></p><p>In this case, the item is <em>the place where dirt on so-and-so can be found</em>. Is that a permissible item to specify for the purposes of Streetwise? Well, it seems like it's in the same general ballpark as corrupt officials and black market arms dealers. This is reinforced by other text:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">The individual is acquainted with the ways of local subcultures (which tend to be the same everywhere in human society), and thus is capable of dealing with strangers without alienating them. . . . Close-knit sub-cultures (such as some portions of the lower classes, and trade groups such as workers, the underworld, etc) generally reject contact with strangers or unknown elements. Streetwise expertise allows contact for the purposes of obtaining information, hiring persons, purchasing contraband or stolen goods, etc.</p><p></p><p>Learning where dirt on so-and-so might be found seems exactly the sort of thing one might learn by making contact with elements of the underworld. The name of the skill - Streetwise - reinforces that appearance.</p><p></p><p>So the player, being in a place where contact might be made (eg a starport, a city) declares <em>I want to use my Streetwise to find out if anyone knows where dirt on so-and-so can be found</em>. The GM sets a target number: given that a black market arms dealer is 9+, as I posted upthread I would expect this to be 10+ or even 11+ if so-and-so is the sort of person whose dirt would be very well hidden.</p><p></p><p>Assuming the throw succeeds, the GM has to provide an answer. The safe in such-and-such building is one candidate answer. The actual GM process here is very similar to answering player questions for Read a Sitch in AW, or for Discern Realities in DW. This is one reason why I regard Classic Traveller as being the closest to PbtA of all the early RPGs.</p><p></p><p></p><p>If Investigation will do the job then why bother with the accountant?</p><p></p><p>But here is how the Basic PDF describes Investigation (p 61):</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">When you look around for clues and make deductions based on those clues, you make an Intelligence (Investigation) check. You might deduce the location of a hidden object, discern from the appearance of a wound what kind of weapon dealt it, or determine the weakest point in a tunnel that could cause it to collapse. Poring through ancient scrolls in search of a hidden fragment of knowledge might also call for an Intelligence (Investigation) check.</p><p></p><p>That strongly suggests that the purpose of the skill is to oblige the GM to give the player extra information about the immediate environment. If a player says, "OK, the accountant said the dirt's not in the safe but I think he might have been duped. I'm going to check to see if he's right or not", how would that feed into an INT (Investigation) check?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 8653799, member: 42582"] I have no idea why the dirt matters. I'm simply following Vincent Baker's example. Most likely, in Traveller played fairly canonically, a patron has retained the PCs to get the dirt for them. But maybe one of the PCs has an enemy and wants the dirt to blackmail them. As for the existence of a safe: that can be established via Streetwise, and indeed that is exactly an instance of what the Streetwise skill is for. From Book 1, p 15: [indent]The referee should set the throw required to obtain any item specified by the players (for example, the name of an official willing to issue licenses without hassle = 5+, the location of high quality guns at a low price = 9+). DMs based on streetwise should be allowed at +1 per level. No expertise DM = −5.[/indent] In this case, the item is [i]the place where dirt on so-and-so can be found[/i]. Is that a permissible item to specify for the purposes of Streetwise? Well, it seems like it's in the same general ballpark as corrupt officials and black market arms dealers. This is reinforced by other text: [indent]The individual is acquainted with the ways of local subcultures (which tend to be the same everywhere in human society), and thus is capable of dealing with strangers without alienating them. . . . Close-knit sub-cultures (such as some portions of the lower classes, and trade groups such as workers, the underworld, etc) generally reject contact with strangers or unknown elements. Streetwise expertise allows contact for the purposes of obtaining information, hiring persons, purchasing contraband or stolen goods, etc.[/indent] Learning where dirt on so-and-so might be found seems exactly the sort of thing one might learn by making contact with elements of the underworld. The name of the skill - Streetwise - reinforces that appearance. So the player, being in a place where contact might be made (eg a starport, a city) declares [i]I want to use my Streetwise to find out if anyone knows where dirt on so-and-so can be found[/i]. The GM sets a target number: given that a black market arms dealer is 9+, as I posted upthread I would expect this to be 10+ or even 11+ if so-and-so is the sort of person whose dirt would be very well hidden. Assuming the throw succeeds, the GM has to provide an answer. The safe in such-and-such building is one candidate answer. The actual GM process here is very similar to answering player questions for Read a Sitch in AW, or for Discern Realities in DW. This is one reason why I regard Classic Traveller as being the closest to PbtA of all the early RPGs. If Investigation will do the job then why bother with the accountant? But here is how the Basic PDF describes Investigation (p 61): [indent]When you look around for clues and make deductions based on those clues, you make an Intelligence (Investigation) check. You might deduce the location of a hidden object, discern from the appearance of a wound what kind of weapon dealt it, or determine the weakest point in a tunnel that could cause it to collapse. Poring through ancient scrolls in search of a hidden fragment of knowledge might also call for an Intelligence (Investigation) check.[/indent] That strongly suggests that the purpose of the skill is to oblige the GM to give the player extra information about the immediate environment. If a player says, "OK, the accountant said the dirt's not in the safe but I think he might have been duped. I'm going to check to see if he's right or not", how would that feed into an INT (Investigation) check? [/QUOTE]
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