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Supposing D&D is gamist, what does that mean?
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8686459" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Its just up to the GM and I'm sure if you have some reason to diverge from that, then its not that 'hard and fast'. There's a good 15 page section that goes over how to build fronts and how to use them, but its like GM-side advice for any game, you aren't utterly bound by it.</p><p></p><p>I guess the answer is, in a certain sense 'yes'. Now, the interesting question is how you go about portraying things. I mean, 'on fire' IMHO has a connotation of extreme urgency and time criticality. I don't know that this is a necessary element of things in a game. Stonetop for instance, which is actually just basically a tweaked Dungeon World with certain specific setting concepts, works in terms of seasons and such, so action could be drawn out over a long period of time. I don't see why that cannot be the case in DW either. Maybe the PCs mess with something, and a year later there's a grim portent, in the meantime they might be doing something else. In fictional terms maybe they spent a year growing corn! I mean, DW talks in terms of PCs being adventurers, but its kind of up to the participants to really decide what that means. Stonetop started out as a Dungeon World campaign after all.</p><p></p><p>I'm not much of a module guy myself. TSR Module B2 for Basic D&D is kind of a classic. There is a 'Keep' where the PCs base themselves, and then a couple of miles away is this large cave complex filled with orcs, goblins, bugbears, etc. There's certainly nothing saying the DM couldn't band together the monsters and have them attack the Keep, but nothing in the adventure anticipates that or even suggests it. B2's Caves of Chaos are basically a static sort of dungeon, although there are some notes stating that the monsters may move around or prepare traps if the PCs leave and come back (which you pretty much have to do, its a large dungeon).</p><p></p><p>Well, certainly over time my games took on a rather different tenor than older edition D&D. Its a game that IMHO is best approached as almost fantasy super heroes. It addresses one of the big problems with classic D&D, which is just that it was plain tedious to muck around doing non-heroic stuff, especially at low levels. 4e is certainly not a perfect game, but played in a specific way a lot of it hangs together and does its thing well.</p><p></p><p>Well, I haven't played a ton of 13th Age. I don't think the icons are intended to necessarily be used exactly as-is. They kind of represent a good set of archetypes of 'powers behind the scenes' to work with. It seems like an easy enough thing where you would design a more specific version of the milieu that had a small handful at most of icons involved, possibly as few as 2.</p><p></p><p>I don't know, the current one felt rather blah to me. I mean, it was interesting at first, but the wonky dice begin to feel annoying at a certain point, and the skill tree system it used was kind of very limiting.</p><p></p><p>Umm, you could run away. I mean, if the PCs meet a dragon right off they will be too weak to fight with it. So, yeah, it may be a lingering Danger and the GM could push it forward into view again even if the PCs don't ever go back to it. OTOH I think good GMing also takes into account what people want to do. If the players are like "dragons are boring, give us something else" then its sort of a dick move to just keep hammering on that dragon. Maybe at some point the Barbarian decides he wants to get so rich he can roll in gold and takes up that thread again. Perhaps the GM uses a portent to remind him of that, lol. Maybe the dragon steals HIS treasure!</p><p></p><p>I don't see why those can't exist in Dungeon World, OTOH there is that sort of 'moves snowball', so once the PCs set out in a direction, events are likely to take on a certain life of their own. That doesn't mean the consequences have to be earth shaking, it could just be everyone's hide is on the line.</p><p></p><p>Well, I mean, 'stakes', they can be anything. It could be your self-respect, or your money, or something even bigger. I mean, yes, some games are likely to be more designed to portray less earth shaking things than others. I don't see why a Story Now game can't deal with almost any situation that has some degree of drama.</p><p></p><p>Yeah, I get a pretty S&S kind of vibe from it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8686459, member: 82106"] Its just up to the GM and I'm sure if you have some reason to diverge from that, then its not that 'hard and fast'. There's a good 15 page section that goes over how to build fronts and how to use them, but its like GM-side advice for any game, you aren't utterly bound by it. I guess the answer is, in a certain sense 'yes'. Now, the interesting question is how you go about portraying things. I mean, 'on fire' IMHO has a connotation of extreme urgency and time criticality. I don't know that this is a necessary element of things in a game. Stonetop for instance, which is actually just basically a tweaked Dungeon World with certain specific setting concepts, works in terms of seasons and such, so action could be drawn out over a long period of time. I don't see why that cannot be the case in DW either. Maybe the PCs mess with something, and a year later there's a grim portent, in the meantime they might be doing something else. In fictional terms maybe they spent a year growing corn! I mean, DW talks in terms of PCs being adventurers, but its kind of up to the participants to really decide what that means. Stonetop started out as a Dungeon World campaign after all. I'm not much of a module guy myself. TSR Module B2 for Basic D&D is kind of a classic. There is a 'Keep' where the PCs base themselves, and then a couple of miles away is this large cave complex filled with orcs, goblins, bugbears, etc. There's certainly nothing saying the DM couldn't band together the monsters and have them attack the Keep, but nothing in the adventure anticipates that or even suggests it. B2's Caves of Chaos are basically a static sort of dungeon, although there are some notes stating that the monsters may move around or prepare traps if the PCs leave and come back (which you pretty much have to do, its a large dungeon). Well, certainly over time my games took on a rather different tenor than older edition D&D. Its a game that IMHO is best approached as almost fantasy super heroes. It addresses one of the big problems with classic D&D, which is just that it was plain tedious to muck around doing non-heroic stuff, especially at low levels. 4e is certainly not a perfect game, but played in a specific way a lot of it hangs together and does its thing well. Well, I haven't played a ton of 13th Age. I don't think the icons are intended to necessarily be used exactly as-is. They kind of represent a good set of archetypes of 'powers behind the scenes' to work with. It seems like an easy enough thing where you would design a more specific version of the milieu that had a small handful at most of icons involved, possibly as few as 2. I don't know, the current one felt rather blah to me. I mean, it was interesting at first, but the wonky dice begin to feel annoying at a certain point, and the skill tree system it used was kind of very limiting. Umm, you could run away. I mean, if the PCs meet a dragon right off they will be too weak to fight with it. So, yeah, it may be a lingering Danger and the GM could push it forward into view again even if the PCs don't ever go back to it. OTOH I think good GMing also takes into account what people want to do. If the players are like "dragons are boring, give us something else" then its sort of a dick move to just keep hammering on that dragon. Maybe at some point the Barbarian decides he wants to get so rich he can roll in gold and takes up that thread again. Perhaps the GM uses a portent to remind him of that, lol. Maybe the dragon steals HIS treasure! I don't see why those can't exist in Dungeon World, OTOH there is that sort of 'moves snowball', so once the PCs set out in a direction, events are likely to take on a certain life of their own. That doesn't mean the consequences have to be earth shaking, it could just be everyone's hide is on the line. Well, I mean, 'stakes', they can be anything. It could be your self-respect, or your money, or something even bigger. I mean, yes, some games are likely to be more designed to portray less earth shaking things than others. I don't see why a Story Now game can't deal with almost any situation that has some degree of drama. Yeah, I get a pretty S&S kind of vibe from it. [/QUOTE]
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