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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Surprise and Sneak Attack
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<blockquote data-quote="shadowoflameth" data-source="post: 8081414" data-attributes="member: 62336"><p>The PHB Pg. 189 which describes surprise does not support the idea that your turn coming up in initiative ends being surprised. The order of operations on that page is that the DM determines surprise by comparing any stealth checks to passive perception. Then positions are determined, then initiative is rolled by everyone (including the surprised creature(s)). Then characters take their turns in initiative order. If a creature is surprised, 'You cannot move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can't take a reaction until that turn ends'. A member of a group can be surprised even if others aren't.</p><p></p><p>Then initiative is described and nothing in that description says that your turn coming up in initiative order ends surprise.</p><p></p><p>So, for the sake of an example, Our assassin; We look at the Assassinate class feature. Pg. 97 of the PHB. 'You have advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn't taken a turn in the combat yet. In addition, any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit.' Our surprised guard rolled well on initiative but because he is surprised does not move or take actions on his turn. True, that doesn't mean his turn in initiative order didn't happen, he's still taken a turn, but this rogue, a hidden attacker (as defined on pg. 198) gets advantage against the guard because this rogue is a hidden attacker. The guard is also still surprised because nothing in play, or occurring on his turn has ended surprise. This assassin rolling 3 on initiative goes last in order, and attacks the still surprised target from hiding with advantage. He hits, and his hit is a critical hit because the target is still surprised.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="shadowoflameth, post: 8081414, member: 62336"] The PHB Pg. 189 which describes surprise does not support the idea that your turn coming up in initiative ends being surprised. The order of operations on that page is that the DM determines surprise by comparing any stealth checks to passive perception. Then positions are determined, then initiative is rolled by everyone (including the surprised creature(s)). Then characters take their turns in initiative order. If a creature is surprised, 'You cannot move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can't take a reaction until that turn ends'. A member of a group can be surprised even if others aren't. Then initiative is described and nothing in that description says that your turn coming up in initiative order ends surprise. So, for the sake of an example, Our assassin; We look at the Assassinate class feature. Pg. 97 of the PHB. 'You have advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn't taken a turn in the combat yet. In addition, any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit.' Our surprised guard rolled well on initiative but because he is surprised does not move or take actions on his turn. True, that doesn't mean his turn in initiative order didn't happen, he's still taken a turn, but this rogue, a hidden attacker (as defined on pg. 198) gets advantage against the guard because this rogue is a hidden attacker. The guard is also still surprised because nothing in play, or occurring on his turn has ended surprise. This assassin rolling 3 on initiative goes last in order, and attacks the still surprised target from hiding with advantage. He hits, and his hit is a critical hit because the target is still surprised. [/QUOTE]
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