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<blockquote data-quote="FreeTheSlaves" data-source="post: 8082147" data-attributes="member: 9952">A lot of this comes down to why initiative is being rolled in the first place?The unseen assassin and their target exist = no combat.The unseen assassin loads and aims their crossbow = no combat.The unseen assassin shoots their crossbow = combat!Only when combat starts does the question of initiative need answering, and the narrative falls into place making sense:Bolt is flying, target was surprised but recovers wits, albeit too late to immediately do anything; Assassin lost optimal chance due to split second mis-timing, but might still pull something off.Narrative problems seem to occur when players treat initiative as occurring before the combat has even started, rather than as a necessary procedure to determine turn order in a turn-based game.Bottom line to me, players should boost their initiative score if they want their Assassin to assassinate regularly - and death strike. Stealth problems disappear with expertise and reliable talent, and attack rolls enjoy advantage. Dex20, Alert feat, plus Weapon of Warning give average initiative 20, huge!Honestly, I think there might be Assassin players opting for things like SS at the expense of boosting initiative. Dex16 by itself is not going to give you great reliability with Assassinate, which as it stands is not automatic due to the surprise clause.DMs can help out a little by splitting monsters into groups with different initiative scores. That way at least the player has more chance of finding a valid target for Assassinate.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FreeTheSlaves, post: 8082147, member: 9952"] A lot of this comes down to why initiative is being rolled in the first place? The unseen assassin and their target exist = no combat. The unseen assassin loads and aims their crossbow = no combat. The unseen assassin shoots their crossbow = combat! Only when combat starts does the question of initiative need answering, and the narrative falls into place making sense: Bolt is flying, target was surprised but recovers wits, albeit too late to immediately do anything; Assassin lost optimal chance due to split second mis-timing, but might still pull something off. Narrative problems seem to occur when players treat initiative as occurring before the combat has even started, rather than as a necessary procedure to determine turn order in a turn-based game. Bottom line to me, players should boost their initiative score if they want their Assassin to assassinate regularly - and death strike. Stealth problems disappear with expertise and reliable talent, and attack rolls enjoy advantage. Dex20, Alert feat, plus Weapon of Warning give average initiative 20, huge! Honestly, I think there might be Assassin players opting for things like SS at the expense of boosting initiative. Dex16 by itself is not going to give you great reliability with Assassinate, which as it stands is not automatic due to the surprise clause. DMs can help out a little by splitting monsters into groups with different initiative scores. That way at least the player has more chance of finding a valid target for Assassinate. [/QUOTE]

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