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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cor_Malek" data-source="post: 5348452" data-attributes="member: 91608">I dunno, there's a lot of ambiguous rules in DnD, and reading RAI is always important, and can cause problems. But not once had I any discussions over this one. Obviously, when PC's are sneaking up on goblins, as soon they're seen they're considered a threat. No matter how narrative the game, PC's tend to fight with critters/people where enmity is known for both sides, so it makes sense to phrase it as it is in the rulebooks. When situation changes, rules get to be adjusted. Apparently is clearer for someone who remembers different phrasing from 2e, but it's not really necessary - ie I started DnD with 3.5 after Rolemaster.In 3.5 - I always looked at drawing weapons as a way to emulate this, and quick draw as a way around it to be able to go for surprise for martials. If the weapons are drawn, highly trained and battle experienced <s>thugs</s> adventurers clearly expect things to go south. Spending 6 seconds at incantation or getting a bow out, putting arrow on and firing would <a href="http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0018.html" target="_blank">hardly catch anyone by surprise</a>.If some magic user wants to surprise anyone when casting a spell - he'd better have still/silent feats. With one of them, I'd allow arcane/spellcraft roll to see if someone is caught off guard, or if they notice half of spell-prep. The magic user could speak under his breath/make delicate gestures, which would call for bluff v perception to see if spellcraft is allowed.Han Solo used his thievery/sleight of hand skill to draw weapon (apparently didn't have the quick draw so he had to delay it with conversation), so he started the combat with a sneak attack, pretty much like hidden/invisible foe would do.edit: On the other hand, if you remember Inglorious Bastards tavern scene - both sides used sleight of hand to draw their weapons, so while the villain thought he'd get a surprise round - everyone got to roll the initiative (won if I recall correctly by Stiglitz).Bottom line - rules are DM tools, not the other way around yadi yadi yada...</blockquote>

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