Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Oryan77" data-source="post: 5348863" data-attributes="member: 18701">Ok, let me start off by saying that I'm in no way trying to argue with you. I actually want to agree. I'm just making sure I'm understanding the ruling correctly is all. When I have a rules lawyer trying to argue with me at the table, I like to make sure I know exactly what I'm talking about. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />If you're saying what I was hoping for (that my interpretation of the rule was wrong), then I'm a little confused why you responded with this:in regards to this:Were you just referring to the fact that the PC may not have been using Sleight of Hand, Hide, or some type of feat to get the jump on the NPC with the spell (since I didn't mention him trying to be sneaky about it)? This is the part that I like the most. I can actually use the line "how aware" as ammo in defending my ruling. And that is exactly what happened when this rule was brought up to me. It doesn't help my cause when all 3 examples given in the PHB are all situations where the PCs don't see the NPCs before the fight begins. They are all examples of whether or not the PCs saw the NPC and was aware of them. This was years ago when I debated this issue with the former players. But they made valid points and I couldn't really dispute them due to the way the rule is written and the examples given. True. In all honesty, I probably would (or will) always give PCs or NPCs the chance to roll awareness checks no matter how implausible I think reacting to it first would be. That's basically what we did in 2e and I was just using that example to show how simply being "aware" of a person was not enough to not allow a skill check for surprise. It's the action that they should be aware of. Well I brought it up because you can Ready an action outside of initiative order by declaring things like, "I aim an arrow at the door, if anyone walks through it, I shoot at them." And that actually can be done outside of initiative order as far as I know. So I was thinking about it in that way. But it doesn't matter if I actually am allowed to require checks for awareness even if both sides see each other & someone is wanting to attack stealthily.I really like that. I always say "rules are a DMs tools", but I'll have to start adding that second line to it. Regardless of what a rules lawyering player thinks. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /></blockquote>

Verification