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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Surprise Attacks
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<blockquote data-quote="Beginning of the End" data-source="post: 5350160" data-attributes="member: 55271"><p>I usually resolve this situation with a Sense Motive check. In this kind of scenario, being aware of the other character's existence is insufficient: You have to be aware of their hostile intent.</p><p></p><p>If the Sense Motive check determines that you're surprised, then the guy attacking unexpectedly gets a surprise round. If the Sense Motive check is successful then there is no surprise round and it's going to come down to initiative to determine who gets to go first.</p><p></p><p>(In other cases I've used Disguise checks. I even had one case where the PCs used an Intimidate check to get some thugs to back down -- earning them a surprise round when they immediately jumped the thugs.)</p><p></p><p>However, in general I think characters in that situation should be able to realize that something is up: Greedo can hypothetically notice that Han has pulled a blaster on him under the table, for example. So barring some sort of really odd circumstance, I'd be looking for <em>some</em> sort of skill check that could be made to determine awareness.</p><p></p><p>EDIT: I see Vegepygmy found the quote I was looking for. I always forget it's tucked away in the PHB and not in the DMG. That's explicit confirmation: The rules give the DM discretion to use whatever checks he wants.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>IMO, this is an overly-simplistic reading of the rules. Awareness of the encounter and your opponents is what determines surprise: If you are unaware that they are opponents and/or that an encounter is about to begin, you are not aware in any meaningful sense of the term as far as determining surprise is concerned.</p><p></p><p>It's also notable that the DMG specifically leaves the methods for determining awareness open-ended, non-specific, and up to the DM's discretion.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Beginning of the End, post: 5350160, member: 55271"] I usually resolve this situation with a Sense Motive check. In this kind of scenario, being aware of the other character's existence is insufficient: You have to be aware of their hostile intent. If the Sense Motive check determines that you're surprised, then the guy attacking unexpectedly gets a surprise round. If the Sense Motive check is successful then there is no surprise round and it's going to come down to initiative to determine who gets to go first. (In other cases I've used Disguise checks. I even had one case where the PCs used an Intimidate check to get some thugs to back down -- earning them a surprise round when they immediately jumped the thugs.) However, in general I think characters in that situation should be able to realize that something is up: Greedo can hypothetically notice that Han has pulled a blaster on him under the table, for example. So barring some sort of really odd circumstance, I'd be looking for [i]some[/i] sort of skill check that could be made to determine awareness. EDIT: I see Vegepygmy found the quote I was looking for. I always forget it's tucked away in the PHB and not in the DMG. That's explicit confirmation: The rules give the DM discretion to use whatever checks he wants. IMO, this is an overly-simplistic reading of the rules. Awareness of the encounter and your opponents is what determines surprise: If you are unaware that they are opponents and/or that an encounter is about to begin, you are not aware in any meaningful sense of the term as far as determining surprise is concerned. It's also notable that the DMG specifically leaves the methods for determining awareness open-ended, non-specific, and up to the DM's discretion. [/QUOTE]
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