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Message: <blockquote data-quote="radmod" data-source="post: 5354555" data-attributes="member: 93008">No, it simply changes the initiative which is why it's a special initiative action. If you allow a reasonable readied action outside of combat it simply means you treat the readied PC as having the highest initiative. If the readied action is used in a surprise round then regular initiative is rolled. See above post in response to Valhalla. And to the other, one could always follow RAW (tie = highest mod goes first then roll off) As to new DMs making the mistake of rolling checks for encounters at the earliest possible opportunity:Problem definitely not solved. The point is that if one allows the check at the earliest opportunity then the DM sets up the encounter. While the players are unaware, they would invariably take actions to attempt to become aware. Which is why you're supposed to roll the check(s) and determine from there what actions the aware were able to perform while the other side is unaware. Yes, you're right. It's just a bad habit of mine to fall into older terminology like back when you would get multiple surprise rounds, so since then anytime you get to act and the other doesn't we called it surprise rounds. However, the effect is essentially the same (except that technically a surprise round allows only a single action). I definitely can't agree here and, in fact, the DMG says exactly the opposite: "you should track time in rounds at this point". The problem is that the example we're discussing has a predetermined outcome. Now, of course, if you made a single spot/listen check, the DM could say this is what happened. However, in the case of Greedo the PC: what ifby saying he's moving silently and then rolls miserably. The DM could say "well, you didn't see the barmaid behind you and you walked right into her. Her tray of drinks crashes to floor - loudly." Then the situation may be entirely changed. Once a PC takes an action that makes the other side aware, then you roll initiative. In the mean, you must track rounds. BTW, unfortunately, DMs often fail to do the same for monsters. That is, the PC's initial check is poor so the DM gives the monsters several rounds of preparatory actions, yet some of these actions could conceivably make the PC's aware, yet the DM ignores that. It's a case where a DM allows monsters to do things that PCs aren't allowed to do.For example, the PCs roll really badly. The DM determines he should get 4 rounds of actions before the PCs could become potentially aware. However, in that four rounds, he has the monsters crank up a noisy, noisy ballista. NO! NO! NO! If the monsters do something really noisy then they should suffer a new listen check for the PCs. As to the middle part, let's remember that Greedo chose not to use his surprise round to attack (let's presume Han was worth more alive than dead). This is where I don't understand you because this is not how delaying works and you certainly don't drop out of combat entirely (btw, Greedo isn't delaying). (In fact, your next section essentially says the same thing.) Both delay and ready allow you to change your order in initiative. If you choose not to act in a round, you gain the highest initiative in the following round. So if both sides are delaying, then the first side actually to act has higher initiative. Since you can't interrupt with a delay, then all other actions occur at a lower initiative. However, if you have a ready action then you can interrupt and your initiative is technically higher.So Han delays, but Greedo's ready action will give him automatic initiative. Yet Greedo's trigger for the ready action requires Han to take a noticeable action. Eventually, in round 3,4,whatever, Han decides to take a Hide/Bluff/Feint/something action. Greedo fails to notice it, so his ready action fails and he becomes unaware, allowing Han a surprise round.Really, as a bounty hunter, Greedo sucked. Or maybe he just rolled bad.</blockquote>

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