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<blockquote data-quote="Arial Black" data-source="post: 7097377" data-attributes="member: 6799649"><p>You and I both agree that, while unconscious creatures are 'unaware', their senses continue to function. Conceptually, being 'aware' in this case is the difference between 'following the meaning of a conversation' (aware) and 'I was woken up by people talking' (unaware, but the noise still woke the sleeper).</p><p></p><p>JC's podcast was very useful, but as it applies to this case it just clarifies that 'passive Perception' does not apply to a sleeper. It says nothing about an active Perception check to find out if a noise awakens a sleeper.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It turns out that we subconsciously train ourselves to be awoken by some things while sleeping through other things; the volume of the noise is not the only factor. My example earlier in the thread was about sleeping through loud traffic noise while being instantly awoken by the broom handle tapping the kitchen ceiling. We can train ourselves to ignore the regular late night shenanigans of our housemates and still wake up to an intruder.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So, if the results are similar enough that it really isn't a problem, the the results are a wash. The only difference is then how much sense it makes. I'm really bothered by the 'auto-wake' thing. This is a game after all. These things are the exciting bits.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No more than an assassin quietly drawing a blade automatically causing light to flash which automatically wakes sleepers in a 30 foot radius!</p><p></p><p>If we're looking for the correct place for the narrative in between the dice rolling, then it comes in to explain <em>why</em> our roll just failed or succeeded, and you can think up a plausible reason on the fly; bladder, bottle, whatever.</p><p></p><p>This is how RPGs and their funny little dice work. We don't just decide that bladders are full, bottles are broken and/or light flashes <em>before</em> any dice are rolled, in such a way that the dice are never rolled! We don't have a game with skills that determine how well we do things and then just decide how well we do things so we never roll the dice!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Arial Black, post: 7097377, member: 6799649"] You and I both agree that, while unconscious creatures are 'unaware', their senses continue to function. Conceptually, being 'aware' in this case is the difference between 'following the meaning of a conversation' (aware) and 'I was woken up by people talking' (unaware, but the noise still woke the sleeper). JC's podcast was very useful, but as it applies to this case it just clarifies that 'passive Perception' does not apply to a sleeper. It says nothing about an active Perception check to find out if a noise awakens a sleeper. It turns out that we subconsciously train ourselves to be awoken by some things while sleeping through other things; the volume of the noise is not the only factor. My example earlier in the thread was about sleeping through loud traffic noise while being instantly awoken by the broom handle tapping the kitchen ceiling. We can train ourselves to ignore the regular late night shenanigans of our housemates and still wake up to an intruder. So, if the results are similar enough that it really isn't a problem, the the results are a wash. The only difference is then how much sense it makes. I'm really bothered by the 'auto-wake' thing. This is a game after all. These things are the exciting bits. No more than an assassin quietly drawing a blade automatically causing light to flash which automatically wakes sleepers in a 30 foot radius! If we're looking for the correct place for the narrative in between the dice rolling, then it comes in to explain [i]why[/i] our roll just failed or succeeded, and you can think up a plausible reason on the fly; bladder, bottle, whatever. This is how RPGs and their funny little dice work. We don't just decide that bladders are full, bottles are broken and/or light flashes [i]before[/i] any dice are rolled, in such a way that the dice are never rolled! We don't have a game with skills that determine how well we do things and then just decide how well we do things so we never roll the dice! [/QUOTE]
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