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Message: <blockquote data-quote="anest1s" data-source="post: 5614441" data-attributes="member: 94230">Sorry, but I am afraid you are wrong. Surprise round happens at the beginning of the combat, and it is only a standard action.The rogue wont join at the beginning of the battle, so he won't get a surprise round.-Either you will have him join the battle at the first round, and give only him a surprise round at the beginning of the battle-Or you have him join the battle at the first round, but he doesn't use his surprise round-Or you have him join the battle at a later point, and he acts first on the next round from the round he joined, but he gets no surprise round/ surprise round happens only before normal rounds begin.But in any case, if he succeeds his hide check, then the opponents are flat footed to him. @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=92305" target="_blank">Water Bob</a> A scenario without the hidden guy first:If the players rush, then roll initiative for both sides at the same time.If they stealth, then if they are unheard they get surprise round (and this raises the question how the other guy knew to stay hidden)Because the PCs hear the screaming, the bad guy probably cant surprise them.If the bad guy wins the initiative, he can talk and ready an action.If the players win the initiative, they will attack first and you wont have time to ready any action.If they get the surprise round it will be worse, because they will have one more standard action to cast spells or throw arrows, or even partial charge.(You can't ready an action out of combat sadly)Probably the combat will end at round one, if the players act smart.To prevent this, have them roll initiative when they spot that. Since he isn't hiding, roll according to the spot rules, to see how far the party is when they first see him (or how far the party is, when he sees them). That way he will probably survive enough to talk.Now, the scenario with the hidden guy.PCs rushthey see visible npc or visible npc sees themwhen visible NPC spots them first, he tells the hidden NPC, who is looting the wagon, to stay hidden as a free action.Then he shouts the warning and readies his action.Everything and everyone rolls initiative (after the surprise round, no matter who got it, rolling higher spot), including the hidden NPC, even if he can't see the PCs yet. At his first turn (when he gets informed form the visible NPC) he rolls to hide (or not, if he has full cover). The second round, he either readies an attack every round to anyone who will move into a position that can spot him, or he waits for a signal to attack. After he notices a signal, he stops readying and jumps out.In any case, the opponent is flat footed. Even if he just noticed him....its too late to avoid the deadly attack.If his ready action kicks in, he plays just before the guy he attacked.If not, he keeps playing at his initiative order.That way, if one PC charge he will still get his attack, if not, he will just lose some time till his turn comes.DMG p23, I was wondering why I couldn't find it in PH, thx lol</blockquote>

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