Surprise

[Water Bob]

The rules say that during the Surprise round, a character can only perform one standard action.

Then, I look at the three examples given on pg. 137 of the 3.5 D&D PHB.






Example 2 gives us kobolds charging on the surprise round.

This is my first question: How can the Kobolds charge during the surprise round when a character is allowed to do only a standard action and the Charge is listed as a Full-Round action.

How is that possible?

Then, the example shows that it is possible to move during the Surprise round. So, I'm guessing that a Move action can be exchanged for a Standard Action during Suprise?

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

To me it sounds like the author used the word "charge" generically, not with its technical D&D meaning. I'd chalk it up to careless wording.

[edit] You CAN charge as a standard action, if you can only take a standard action (as on a surprise round):

If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn.

And yup, you can replace a standard ation with a move action, just not the other way around.

YIn a normal round, you can perform a standard action and a move action, or you can perform a full-round action. You can also perform one or more free actions. You can always take a move action in place of a standard action.

 

[Greenfield]

The SRD describes a Charge as a Full Round Action, but includes a footnote:

May be taken as a standard action if you are limited to taking only a single action in a round.

What used to be referred to as a "partial charge" is a charge action moving less than or equal to you normal single move, but a minimum of 10 feet or more.

CHARGE
Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. However, it carries tight restrictions on how you can move.
Movement During a Charge: You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent.
You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Here’s what it means to have a clear path. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. (Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.)
If you don’t have line of sight to the opponent at the start of your turn, you can’t charge that opponent.
You can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round as a charge.
If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn.
Attacking on a Charge: After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll. and take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn.
A charging character gets a +2 bonus on the Strength check made to bull rush or overrun an opponent (see Bull Rush, above, and Overrun, below).
Even if you have extra attacks, such as from having a high enough base attack bonus or from using multiple weapons, you only get to make one attack during a charge.
Lances and Charge Attacks: A lance deals double damage if employed by a mounted character in a charge.
Weapons Readied against a Charge: Spears, tridents, and certain other piercing weapons deal double damage when readied (set) and used against a charging character.

Okay?

And yes, in general you can perform a Move action in place of a Standard action.

 

[Greenfield]

It's an odd point raised in the SRD, that you can only do the charge as a standard action if you're limited to a standard action.

The rules already say that you can't move-attack-move, and they already say that you can't take a second standard action in the round, so it's a restriction that doesn't really restrict.

The only places where it would seem to come into play would be on things like ride-by attack, which is strange. Lance charges are already "charge" attacks, and pretty much have "ride by" written all over them.

 

[airwalkrr]

As an aside, I take a page from 4e in my PF/3.5 game and make charge a standard action that lets you move your speed and attack at the end with a +2 to hit and -2 to AC and ends your turn. It doesn't break the game. It's actually one of the rules that I really liked about 4e and it makes the combat rules a little more internally consistent.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

It's an odd point raised in the SRD, that you can only do the charge as a standard action if you're limited to a standard action.

The rules already say that you can't move-attack-move, and they already say that you can't take a second standard action in the round, so it's a restriction that doesn't really restrict.

It allows you to charge during a surprise round, and it allows zombies to charge (at all).

 

[Greenfield]

The restriction I was referring to was the one that said you could only do it as a standard action when a standard action was all you had.

I could do a charge for less than my single move any time I wanted to, and yes, it would end my turn since at that point I would have both moved and attacked.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The restriction I was referring to was the one that said you could only do it as a standard action when a standard action was all you had.

Not really.

If they didn't so limit it, then it would allow you to do things like draw a weapon and charge without Quickdraw, or open a door and then charge, or ...

Similarly, it would allow you to move 30' east around a corner and then charge 30' north, which you can't do with a normal charge.*

Using your "move up to your speed as a move action and then attack as a standard = standard action charge," doing so does not give you the charge bonus on your attack roll, nor does it penalize your AC, nor does it let you benefit from character abilities that trigger on a charge. So, it isn't quite the same.

* Now, IMGs, charge is a standard action via houserule, so not much of this applies to me.

 

[Water Bob]

It's an odd point raised in the SRD, that you can only do the charge as a standard action if you're limited to a standard action.

Yeah, I re-read the Conan rule. It allows you to charge as a Standard Action if you take half movement on the Charge--which is basically allowing you a Standard Action and a Move Action for the price of a Standard Action.

The rules already say that you can't move-attack-move...

There is a Feat that will let you do that, at least there is in Conan. (Yes, I know I put a D&D tag on this thread).

...and they already say that you can't take a second standard action in the round...

When you use a Full-Action to take a second attack with your off-hand, isn't that basically two Standard Actions in the same round?

 

[anest1s]

There is a Feat that will let you do that, at least there is in Conan. (Yes, I know I put a D&D tag on this thread).

There is in D&D too, but you have to get several feats to get it...so generally it isn't something too easy.

When you use a Full-Action to take a second attack with your off-hand, isn't that basically two Standard Actions in the same round?

At +6 BAB you are so good with the weapon, that you know how to strike faster when you commit to it. Or thats how I think of it