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<blockquote data-quote="Chris_Nightwing" data-source="post: 5984246" data-attributes="member: 882">I don't know if there's a thread about the recent <a href="http://wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20120806" target="_blank">L&amp;L</a> column, but I'm sure there's a discussion to be had about surprise.Firstly, ignoring any mechanics, do you think that surprise should be 'absolute', as in, if you are surprised then you definitely can't act before those who surprise you?Secondly, if you answered yes to the first question, should those who surprise you be potentially able to act twice?If you answered No at first, then I suggest that a light bonus/penalty, or advantage/disadvantage, to initiative would be a good choice. If you answered Yes, then No, then a bonus/penalty to initiative so great that it cannot be overcome (or easier, a group resolving initiative before another group) would be a good choice. If you answered Yes, then Yes, then you probably like the surprise round followed by initiative.Also, to clear up a troubling point, if new combatants join the frey then who, really, makes them roll initiative relative to existing combatants? The numbers don't matter, initiative is entirely ordinal, and once rolled you should forget the values and insert new groups before or after existing groups as is sensible (rolling initiative within those groups if they are mixed combatants).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Chris_Nightwing, post: 5984246, member: 882"] I don't know if there's a thread about the recent [URL="http://wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20120806"]L&L[/URL] column, but I'm sure there's a discussion to be had about surprise. Firstly, ignoring any mechanics, do you think that surprise should be 'absolute', as in, if you are surprised then you definitely can't act before those who surprise you? Secondly, if you answered yes to the first question, should those who surprise you be potentially able to act twice? If you answered No at first, then I suggest that a light bonus/penalty, or advantage/disadvantage, to initiative would be a good choice. If you answered Yes, then No, then a bonus/penalty to initiative so great that it cannot be overcome (or easier, a group resolving initiative before another group) would be a good choice. If you answered Yes, then Yes, then you probably like the surprise round followed by initiative. Also, to clear up a troubling point, if new combatants join the frey then who, really, makes them roll initiative relative to existing combatants? The numbers don't matter, initiative is entirely ordinal, and once rolled you should forget the values and insert new groups before or after existing groups as is sensible (rolling initiative within those groups if they are mixed combatants). [/QUOTE]

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