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<blockquote data-quote="Greensnakedrex" data-source="post: 5984891" data-attributes="member: 6692368">I am a big fan of devastating surprise.&nbsp; When players surprise enemies, it is usually the result of players who are immersed, using their character's abilities, and thinking hard.&nbsp; Rewarding this type of play tickles my DM bone.&nbsp; On the other hand, surprise can be a powerful tool for DMs.&nbsp; Through surprise you can teach players a lesson for not paying enough attention, advance nefarious plots, or scare the crap out of complacent players.&nbsp; You can always fudge a roll if the surprise is going too nastily for the players while keeping the payoff of added tension.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; In my experience, the players can rarely carry out a surprise attack without DM complicity, making it a very easy aspect of combat to control.&nbsp; This can be a great tool for pacing an adventure.&nbsp; I often have encounters planned that advance the story, but are not meant to be mortal threats to the party.&nbsp; Allowing for devastating surprise can speed up the resolution of these encounters while making your players feel powerful.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; On the other hand, DMs never really have to grant surprise unless we really want to.&nbsp; I have 'made' many a perception check against PC's who are working so hard for surprise, and reveled in their dashed hopes as they start the 'boss' combat with the rogue pinned against the wall, the spell casters out of range, and the meleeists over one round of movement away.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; If the power of surprise is ameliorated,&nbsp; it's value to DMs decreases.&nbsp; For this reason, I am not a fan of surprise just being +20 to initiative.&nbsp; I am not completely sold on any specific mechanic to adjudicate surprise as of yet, but I do think think that surprise should be VALUABLE and sought out when ever possible, and dreaded when wielded against you.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Greensnakedrex, post: 5984891, member: 6692368"] I am a big fan of devastating surprise. When players surprise enemies, it is usually the result of players who are immersed, using their character's abilities, and thinking hard. Rewarding this type of play tickles my DM bone. On the other hand, surprise can be a powerful tool for DMs. Through surprise you can teach players a lesson for not paying enough attention, advance nefarious plots, or scare the crap out of complacent players. You can always fudge a roll if the surprise is going too nastily for the players while keeping the payoff of added tension. In my experience, the players can rarely carry out a surprise attack without DM complicity, making it a very easy aspect of combat to control. This can be a great tool for pacing an adventure. I often have encounters planned that advance the story, but are not meant to be mortal threats to the party. Allowing for devastating surprise can speed up the resolution of these encounters while making your players feel powerful. On the other hand, DMs never really have to grant surprise unless we really want to. I have 'made' many a perception check against PC's who are working so hard for surprise, and reveled in their dashed hopes as they start the 'boss' combat with the rogue pinned against the wall, the spell casters out of range, and the meleeists over one round of movement away. If the power of surprise is ameliorated, it's value to DMs decreases. For this reason, I am not a fan of surprise just being +20 to initiative. I am not completely sold on any specific mechanic to adjudicate surprise as of yet, but I do think think that surprise should be VALUABLE and sought out when ever possible, and dreaded when wielded against you. [/QUOTE]

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