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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 2922017" data-attributes="member: 2011">Ok, I'll concede the point that a character can decide to attack or not.However, my questions still stand (which have not been answered):1) Is the penalty to AC applied if no attack was made on a declared charge considering that the penalty is listed in the attack section of charging (not the movement section of charging) and charging is in the special attack section?2) And if the penalty to AC is applied, would it require the rider to do a "Fighting with a Warhorse" when mounted because the horse is doing the actual charging? In other words, is the very act of charging considered an attack (since if you apply the penalty, you are using the attack section of the charging rules and charging itself is listed under special attacks)? Isn't the horse required to at least be able to attack in order for the rider to declare a charge if the rider intends to attack?3) If the penalty to AC is not applied, then how is this different than a double move? Could a character not just double move and decide at the end whether it was a charge or not (as long as he followed the other movement rules for charging)? Or alternatively, why wouldn't a character just declare a charge any time he is moving more than a speed amount (and charging seems reasonable for the situation) and then renege on the charge later in the movement if there is no penalty for the movement?The issue I am having is that if you rule that the horse can charge, but is not making an attack and "Fighting with a Warhorse" is not required for the rider to attack, then this is not RAW. This means that the horse is doing a special attack, but not really doing an attack. It's kind of like a free pass.DM: "What are you doing?"Player: "I am charging on my horse."DM: "Make a Fighter With a Warhorse Riding roll."Player: "I do not have to. The horse is charging, but it is not really attacking. So, only my PC is attacking." (ignore the man behind the currents, charging is not really attacking for the horse, it is moving)Huh? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" /> Now, compare this to Aid Another. It is not an attack action (i.e. nobody gets damaged, especially in the boost AC case), but isn't the very act of doing it still considered an attack even though no attack action is actually performed (a standard action is performed)?Note: I am differentiating between an attack and an attack action here.Note the difference here. It is not that the mount is given an attack action, it is given an attack. This could be Charge, Aid Another, etc.Not all attacks require attack actions. If the horse is charging, it is still attacking. If it does not make the "single attack action", it still charged (and hence, still attacked).According to RAW, not according to how most people play it.</blockquote>

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