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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7972816" data-attributes="member: 42582">I would say players rather than PCs. We're not talking here about the in-fiction events, but the real-world process of how the shared fiction is created.When you talk about random generators you seem to be focused mostly on the establishment and introduction of fictional elements at the framing state (eg who do you meet? what do you see?) If you look at games that are deliberately designed to surprise the GM - eg PbtA games that [USER=6785785]@hawkeyefan[/USER] has mentioned, or the Prince Valiant experience that I posted about - they often focus as much or more on action resolution as the place where the GM gets surprised.There are a number of technical aspects of this that could be unpacked, but probably the most important is that, in these systems the outcome of action resolution (i) is not pre-determined, and (ii) can sometimes be something that the player who declared the action for his/her PC didn't expect, and (iii) can sometimes be something that the GM who set the scene for the action declaration didn't expect, and (iv) can sometimes be both (ii) and (iii). These games also take it as given that whatever results from action resolution must be incorporated into and honoured in subsequent framing.Conversely, if you look at games where the GM is rarely or never surprised, the above elements are missing: outcomes of action resolution are pre-determined; or in some other way cannot be different from what the GM expected; or do not have any significant impact upon subsequent framings. You can see a whole lot of examples of this in the currently active &quot;How was your last session?&quot; thread on this forum.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7972816, member: 42582"] I would say [I]players[/I] rather than [I]PCs[/I]. We're not talking here about the in-fiction events, but the real-world process of how the shared fiction is created. When you talk about [I]random generators[/I] you seem to be focused mostly on the establishment and introduction of fictional elements at the framing state (eg [I]who do you meet?[/I] [I]what do you see?[/I]) If you look at games that are deliberately designed to surprise the GM - eg PbtA games that [USER=6785785]@hawkeyefan[/USER] has mentioned, or the Prince Valiant experience that I posted about - they often focus as much or more on [I]action resolution[/I] as the place where the GM gets surprised. There are a number of technical aspects of this that could be unpacked, but probably the most important is that, in these systems the outcome of action resolution (i) is not pre-determined, and (ii) can sometimes be something that the player who declared the action for his/her PC didn't expect, and (iii) can sometimes be something that the GM who set the scene for the action declaration didn't expect, and (iv) can sometimes be both (ii) and (iii). These games also take it as given that [I]whatever results from action resolution [U]must[/U] be incorporated into and honoured in subsequent framing[/I]. Conversely, if you look at games where the GM is rarely or never surprised, the above elements are missing: outcomes of action resolution are pre-determined; or in some other way cannot be different from what the GM expected; or do not have any significant impact upon subsequent framings. You can see a whole lot of examples of this in the currently active "How was your last session?" thread on this forum. [/QUOTE]

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