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<blockquote data-quote="rogueattorney" data-source="post: 4810563" data-attributes="member: 17551">It was four first or second level pcs against 12 hobgoblins.&nbsp; Even with a Sleep spell on deck, that's a tough fight.&nbsp; A pc is going to die in that fight.&nbsp;&nbsp; If the dice go poorly, all the pcs might die in that fight.&nbsp; What the party did wrong is that when the hobgoblins told the pcs to &quot;go away&quot; (the DM gave the players a chance to avoid the fight) the pcs didn't say &quot;ok&quot; and walk out of the room.&nbsp; If they later find out that what they're looking for is through that room, they can always go back.&nbsp; Maybe with some more muscle, better magic, or otherwise better prepared for the fight.What purpose did that fight serve?&nbsp; What treasure were the hobbos guarding?&nbsp; What xp was to be gained that made it worth the risk of certain death for at least one pc to engage in that fight?While the hobbos do tell the pcs where there treasure is after they surrender, the players had no way knowing they'd do that prior to getting into the fight, and the players (and we, because the narrative ends) have no way of knowing whether the hobbos told the truth, whether the treasure was substantial enough to be worth the Frederik's death, whether it's guarded beyond the poison needle trap, or whether the pcs ever actually acquire it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="rogueattorney, post: 4810563, member: 17551"] It was four first or second level pcs against 12 hobgoblins. Even with a Sleep spell on deck, that's a tough fight. A pc is going to die in that fight. If the dice go poorly, all the pcs might die in that fight. What the party did wrong is that when the hobgoblins told the pcs to "go away" (the DM gave the players a chance to avoid the fight) the pcs didn't say "ok" and walk out of the room. If they later find out that what they're looking for is through that room, they can always go back. Maybe with some more muscle, better magic, or otherwise better prepared for the fight. What purpose did that fight serve? What treasure were the hobbos guarding? What xp was to be gained that made it worth the risk of certain death for at least one pc to engage in that fight? While the hobbos do tell the pcs where there treasure is after they surrender, the players had no way knowing they'd do that prior to getting into the fight, and the players (and we, because the narrative ends) have no way of knowing whether the hobbos told the truth, whether the treasure was substantial enough to be worth the Frederik's death, whether it's guarded beyond the poison needle trap, or whether the pcs ever actually acquire it. [/QUOTE]

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