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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7145481" data-attributes="member: 996">No, nothing like that.&nbsp; In 0D&amp;D, you searched for traps by prodding the dungeon floor ahead of you with a 10' pole and the like.&nbsp; Then the Thief comes along and finding traps is his exclusive 'special' ability, so it would be just wrong to let you find a trap.&nbsp; In contrast spellcasting is supernatural, not everyone can do it.&nbsp; Fighting is something everyone can do, and everyone /could/ do it, 'swing weapon' did not become a 'fighter special ability.'&nbsp; Magic-users didn't take away the ability to cast spells, since no one has such abilities normally.&nbsp; Fighters didn't take away the ability to fight, because everyone could fight.&nbsp; Thieves stole the ability to watch out for traps, sneak around, even climb, because everyone could, then they couldn't, because of the Thieves' ill-conceived mechanics and niche protection.The other reason the thief was such a bad idea was that it was so /bad/ at everything.&nbsp; It was the only one who could do a range of fairly mundane dungeon-crawling tasks, but it wasn't that good at them, and it barely fought better than the magic-user, had poor hps, etc.&nbsp; So the thief took away from the other classes (but especially the fighter, because it couldn't just up and cast Knock or TK or Find the Path or whatever when something other than hitting monsters was called for) but still didn't have enough to stand on its own.&nbsp; Sure, early D&amp;D needed more resolution than just hitting things and casting spells, but it should have gotten there by expanding universal options and fighter abilities, rather than by creating the Thief.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7145481, member: 996"] No, nothing like that. In 0D&D, you searched for traps by prodding the dungeon floor ahead of you with a 10' pole and the like. Then the Thief comes along and finding traps is his exclusive 'special' ability, so it would be just wrong to let you find a trap. In contrast spellcasting is supernatural, not everyone can do it. Fighting is something everyone can do, and everyone /could/ do it, 'swing weapon' did not become a 'fighter special ability.' Magic-users didn't take away the ability to cast spells, since no one has such abilities normally. Fighters didn't take away the ability to fight, because everyone could fight. Thieves stole the ability to watch out for traps, sneak around, even climb, because everyone could, then they couldn't, because of the Thieves' ill-conceived mechanics and niche protection. The other reason the thief was such a bad idea was that it was so /bad/ at everything. It was the only one who could do a range of fairly mundane dungeon-crawling tasks, but it wasn't that good at them, and it barely fought better than the magic-user, had poor hps, etc. So the thief took away from the other classes (but especially the fighter, because it couldn't just up and cast Knock or TK or Find the Path or whatever when something other than hitting monsters was called for) but still didn't have enough to stand on its own. Sure, early D&D needed more resolution than just hitting things and casting spells, but it should have gotten there by expanding universal options and fighter abilities, rather than by creating the Thief. [/QUOTE]

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