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<blockquote data-quote="Kahuna Burger" data-source="post: 1350371" data-attributes="member: 8439"><p>kahuna player: *rolls eyes* "no not really, you didn't want the plan to work so it didn't, lets move on." (leaving aside for the moment the silliness of calling someone a "metaplayer" for being aware that the DM does in fact make those decisions. Thats what I normally call a "tied in to reality player".)</p><p></p><p>I've found that one thing that breaks my willing suspension of disbelief is when it becomes clear that the DM has made a decision based entirely on game expediency. Something doesn't work because it would short circuit the plot, an unprecedented arrival swings the party's plans back to the module path they had almost left, an enemy suddenly throws the "intro fight" when he unexpected gets the upper hand. </p><p></p><p>Oddly, I was just thinking about this the other day in a totally different context. I was watching Law and Order, and two key peices of evidence in a row were excluded when the case seemed sewed up. Now this in and of itself wasn't unusual, its a common plot point. But the excuses to throw them out were so INCREDIBLY weak, it pretty much screamed "oops, wrote myself into a corner, how do we make the orriginal plan for what was gonna be crucial work?"</p><p></p><p>and to jump contexts yet again, this is a key problem I have with George RR Martin's last book. Things going wrong is fine, its what makes drama what it is, but there's a point where it is so transparently a "plot adjustment" rather than a natural progression of the story that I balk, and lose my SOD and thus my interest.</p><p></p><p>So to go back to the orriginal issue, I don't think this is a problem of immagination, by any means. If anything, its an issue of how far I am willing to bend over and WORK to suspend not only disbelief, but common sense, and how much I am willing to take over that work entirely when its supposed to be at a minimum a shared task with the presenter of fiction.</p><p></p><p>So I guess the short version woud be "yeah, mostly what ciaran00 said" <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> </p><p></p><p>Kahuna Burger</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kahuna Burger, post: 1350371, member: 8439"] kahuna player: *rolls eyes* "no not really, you didn't want the plan to work so it didn't, lets move on." (leaving aside for the moment the silliness of calling someone a "metaplayer" for being aware that the DM does in fact make those decisions. Thats what I normally call a "tied in to reality player".) I've found that one thing that breaks my willing suspension of disbelief is when it becomes clear that the DM has made a decision based entirely on game expediency. Something doesn't work because it would short circuit the plot, an unprecedented arrival swings the party's plans back to the module path they had almost left, an enemy suddenly throws the "intro fight" when he unexpected gets the upper hand. Oddly, I was just thinking about this the other day in a totally different context. I was watching Law and Order, and two key peices of evidence in a row were excluded when the case seemed sewed up. Now this in and of itself wasn't unusual, its a common plot point. But the excuses to throw them out were so INCREDIBLY weak, it pretty much screamed "oops, wrote myself into a corner, how do we make the orriginal plan for what was gonna be crucial work?" and to jump contexts yet again, this is a key problem I have with George RR Martin's last book. Things going wrong is fine, its what makes drama what it is, but there's a point where it is so transparently a "plot adjustment" rather than a natural progression of the story that I balk, and lose my SOD and thus my interest. So to go back to the orriginal issue, I don't think this is a problem of immagination, by any means. If anything, its an issue of how far I am willing to bend over and WORK to suspend not only disbelief, but common sense, and how much I am willing to take over that work entirely when its supposed to be at a minimum a shared task with the presenter of fiction. So I guess the short version woud be "yeah, mostly what ciaran00 said" ;) Kahuna Burger [/QUOTE]
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