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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Eosin the Red" data-source="post: 2455686" data-attributes="member: 168">Hey now, these are my peeves don't go trying to spoil them for me   <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> Good call on ME - All I could remember was the first age (which can't really be timed at all but is arguibly a vast span of time).As to question C: Outdoor plumbing poses a large number of very serious problems that most right thinking folks seek to avoid.1. Monsters lurking at the cess pool (or critters in the real world).2. Injury when the elderly attempt to use the facilities. Subjectively (but I bet there is a study somewhere), a disproportionately large number of elderly are injured even with all the modern amenities while attempting to reach the facilities. I can only imagine how bad it would be if they tried to cross icy terrain. Sure, they could place the offal into a container and keep it overnight but after about 10,000 years someone might clue in that sometimes, if the keep the waste in the house others get sick.3. Darned inconvient. It sucks walking out into the cold to empty the bladder. It sucked in the 1800s, 500s, and I am sure it still sucked 45,000 years ago. You could say that I am making a number of assumptions, but in return I could argue that you want to ignore the conditional premise of ---> a society that can carry information forward in some fashion that is at least semi-permenent for the duration of their development. I am sure that you can point out exceptions galore to the basic idea or societies that only develop marginally within a given time frame but that ain't really the point. The point is the credelousness of someone like Galadriel, who has been alive for umpteen thousand years. Her accomplishments include the construction of a mystical barrier covering hundreds of miles, harnessing the true light, and commanding one of the rings of power, but for all her vaunted wisdom from an inconcievibaly long life span, she and her followers still wipe with leaves deep in the forest? (farsical - Tolkien never states what manner of facilities are available to the elves).  The point, if not the example, stands.  <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/nervous.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":heh:" title="Nervous Laugh    :heh:" data-shortname=":heh:" /> We can try a middle ground - I am willing to conceed in some cases where there is a little forethought into the reasoning it MIGHT be reasonible for a society to remain at a single technology level for extended periods of time..... If it is well written. I still adhere to the general peeve with the thought that most fantasy writers, in general, do not consider such issues when they create societies that have persisted in a stagnant manner for tens of thousands of years.Again, I think at times we are speaking crosswise. When I say something like a disaster strikes an area to such a degree that it effectivly drops a culture back two or more steps along the technological food chain, we are in effect talking about massive local change on the scale of terrific volcanic erruptions that kill a significant portion of society (but our little society must retain the ability to convey records. This statement was strictly provided so you don't sneak in that hole.). You can ignore several of those in your past but if you start to look at the ole history books and notice the for the last 10,000 years just about every 500 years or so Mt Killamymother erupts, destroying nearly everyone, then you are faced with some hard choices. Be smart or win a Darwin award.Now, I can't wait to see what holes you punch in this flippant post.   <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/nervous.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":heh:" title="Nervous Laugh    :heh:" data-shortname=":heh:" /></blockquote>

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