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Message: <blockquote data-quote="gribble" data-source="post: 3539189" data-attributes="member: 12430">Then why is it that pretty much every rogue/scout/monk/mobility-based fighter in D&D has skill ranks in the skill, if it's such a huge investment for such marginal payback? In fact I'd go so far as to say that in most D&D games I've played/run, it's up there in the top 5, if not top 2-3 most taken skills... and why is it that not a single one of those characters bothers to invest more ranks than it takes to get a +14 modifier?Plus, tumbling around an opponent is no more situational than climbing a wall (and I bet climbers who invest skill ranks in climb don't expect the climb DC of all walls to be 15...)Besides all that, your argument doesn't hold in SWSE. Skill ratings are 1/2 character level, plus ability mod, plus skill training and skill focus feats, so you don't *need* to specialise/spend anything to increase your tumble ability in SWSE.Looking at it mechanically in SWSE - against a static DC 15, a character who "invests" in skill training in acrobatics and has a reasonable dex (say 14 for +2), is only going to be failing on a roll of 1 or 2 by 10th level, and thats for tumbling against anyone! A character "investing" in skill focus can say the same at 1st level! Even a totally untrained 10th level character has a better than even chance of tumbling around that dual lightsaber wielding jedi master, reducing his defences!I like the idea of opposing it with reflex defence - that way it's all but automatic against mooks for anyone "investing" in the skill, and even a higher level opponent is still doable if you're reasonably trained.Looking at 10th level characters, both with dex 14:Our tumbler would have +17 skill modifier (+5 skill training, +5 skill focus, +2 dex, +5 level)Our opponent would have 24 reflex defence (10 +10 level, +2 dex, +2 class bonus)So our specialist tumbler can still pretty easily get around an equally levelled opponent (needing a dice roll of 7, which more often than not he'll make, and can most likely guarantee by spending a force point).</blockquote>

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